Fretless Fenders - WTH....

[Deleted member 165050]

I have owned and played Warwicks, including fretless, and I don't like them at all.
Sandberg are fine instruments, and I have never seen a bad one, or even one that was not "above OK", unlike Fender.

My most likely options are:
- new Sandberg
- Fender MIM fretless neck for my 80s MIJ Squier Jazz
- Warmoth fretless neck for the same bass
- have my extra, stock neck defretted for the same bass

Interesting how Warwicks are love or hate instruments, I've played Corvettes for years and would rate my Corvette fretless 5 as second to my Wal fretless 4 and way above my fretless Precision. But then I haven't bought a Sandberg... yet. Panther Special fretless 5, plain board, bubinga finish

 

[AlexanderB]

I can say that it's pretty dismal this year. So bad that I'm no longer buying Fender instruments for the time being.

I've written about my experience elsewhere, but to sum it up: I bought 4 Fenders this year - 2 Tony Franklins and 2 Jaco Artists - and only one of them didn't have a defect so bad that it required tools to fix or a full exchange:

LPB Tony Franklin: improperly milled fingerboard, wood is very thin in the middle. I didn't catch this until it was too late to exchange it with Sweetwater. So I work around it by slightly overtightening the truss rod with an extra washer under the TR nut to get the relief flat enough.

Burst Tony Franklin: had a nasty high spot in the fingerboard in about the last 1" of the heel, which required leveling with a radius beam.

Jaco Artist #1: Two stripped out neck holdown screws. Repaired with the toothpick & superglue trick.

Jaco Artist #2: original instrument's fingerboard was so badly deformed it was unplayable. I had to exchange it with Sweetwater, but the exchange instrument was perfect (this is the one that didn't require repair or replacement from brand new).

My theory is it's probably the pandemic. I'm sure Fender is having personnel issues with the lockdowns and having to furlough workers and so on. So my working hypothesis is they're just under unusual strain in their manufacturing and they're letting a lot of stuff go out the door that they might ordinarily not.

I would imagine that once we get past the pandemic and things start to return to a more normal condition, I bet things will improve at Fender.

L

Sorry to hear that. Reflects my experience very well. Fender have been, and still are not as good as other brands at delivering consistent, high quality. The good ones are good, though.

 

[AlexanderB]

Interesting how Warwicks are love or hate instruments, I've played Corvettes for years and would rate my Corvette fretless 5 as second to my Wal fretless 4 and way above my fretless Precision. But then I haven't bought a Sandberg... yet. Panther Special fretless 5, plain board, bubinga finish

IME, Warwick basses work well for player with hard attack, where the "refined" (very precise) Sandberg instruments lend themselves better to players with a softer attack.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

The Jaco Artist is still in production. I bought two of them this year. QC was the only problem - I repaired the first one (2 stripped out neck hold down screws, probably the fault of soft spots in the wood in the heel) and had Sweetwater replace the second one altogether (fingerboard so defective with humps and dips it was unplayable, replacement was perfect, though).

But once I finally got good ones, , they're absolutely outstanding basses with really impeccable build quality. They're like real 1962 jazz basses - even the tuners get sticky and hard to turn just like on a genuine old Fender .

So mine are keepers. And since they're lined, they're almost like having a fretted bass. In good lighting, and low loudness of the gig, I could probably play it fine in a live situation....

L

I thought they were discontinued. Were they MIM models? Maybe the US models were discontinued. I remember they used to have a Custom Shop model that was much more expensive.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

IME, Warwick basses work well for player with hard attack, where the "refined" (very precise) Sandberg instruments lend themselves better to players with a softer attack.

I'm a soft finger style player myself, although I do have TI jazz flats on my Warwicks which I believe are quite high output.

 

[AlexanderB]

I'm a soft finger style player myself, although I do have TI jazz flats on my Warwicks which I believe are quite high output.

Well, I hate flats, too...

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Well, I hate flats, too...

Are you really sure you want a fretless? Flats on all these...

 

[AlexanderB]

Are you really sure you want a fretless? Flats on all these...

Yep, fresh rounds + fretless jazz bass = great sound.

It seems the neck needs a little wiggle in the joint on the Wal? E string is really close to the edge...

 

[Ender_rpm]

If I remember correctly, the neck is a bit more substantial on the Fender, which I prefer.
I also want passive VVT, and I like the slightly "dirty" pickups in Fender American Standard Basses 2008-2012(?). The Sires sound too modern and polished, to me.

Thats fair, I wanted a modern sound. the neck is smaller than my MIJ 75 Jazz, which is already a pretty slim neck by most standards, but I have smaller hands,

V7? Really nice looking bass. How do you like the rolled fret edges?

Yes, V7, but, uh, dude, fretless bass thread

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Yep, fresh rounds + fretless jazz bass = great sound.

It seems the neck needs a little wiggle in the joint on the Wal? E string is really close to the edge...

it's really tight in the pocket, probably just a photo perspective... if you look at the Wal pickup and the Warwick bridge they don't look at all square. So much for my new iPhone's camera!

 

[BAG]

Yep, fresh rounds + fretless jazz bass = great sound.

It seems the neck needs a little wiggle in the joint on the Wal? E string is really close to the edge...

I'm with you on that.
I have flats on all my basses..... except my fretless jazz. I started with flats, then went to half rounds and now I've got black tapewounds on there. Almost the sound of rounds without the rough feel and finger noise. Rounds would probably sound slightly better again but I just can't stand the feel of them.

 

[AlexanderB]

I thought they were discontinued. Were they MIM models? Maybe the US models were discontinued. I remember they used to have a Custom Shop model that was much more expensive.

IIRC, there is/was a fretless MIJ Jazz (JB62FL), that is very close in spec, but has no special Jaco association. Very high and consistent quality. "Rosewood" fingerboard, but hard as ebony.
Then, the next level is the MIA Jaco model, which has received its fair share of negative feedback WRT dead spots, lacking precision in the assembly and manufacturing, soft fingerboard etc.
Top tier is/was the Custom Shop Jaco bass, in some road worn model. Supposedly in a different league compared to the regular MIA model.

 

[skycruiser]

Yes, V7, but, uh, dude, fretless bass thread

Lol. Yeah not relevant on a fretless, though from photos I've seen the entire fretboard edge is rounded significantly and might make even a fretless more comfortable.

 

[Neil Folkard]

To each their own, of course, but I have round wounds on all my fretless basses.

 

[Neil Folkard]

Are you really sure you want a fretless? Flats on all these...

Wow, those are some beauties, right there.

 

[Manticore]

If a Fender fretless is what you seek, buy whatever Fender strikes your fancy a put a fretless neck on it. The necks bolt on and off, and are largely interchangeable. A little lateral thinking goes a long way toward calming this particular rant.

 

[AlexanderB]

Simple DFM and throughput.
Assume they stop production to make a fretless because they HAVE TO offer a fretless because of perceived market gap. Between models there is a period of time where the manufacturing is paused. Same as any factory. They offer a fretless because it is viewed as a competitive disadvantage if they do not have in their catalog. Not because it is a profitable item.
Forgive me if I am assuming your position incorrectly.
But your assumption is that a unitary margin is the same as an operating profit. If a fretless bass sells to the dealer for $700 (for example) it costs the factory probably $250 in material and labor and operating costs amortized. But let’s assume in the time it takes to change the run schedule to accommodate a slow runner unit they could complete 3 more Strats which also include that same internal margin markup.
Would you take that deal? It’s like When a big auto maker has a very limited run sports car. They do it to press the market and put their competitors on notice. But it is not profitable. Basically Fender makes a fretless for marketing purposes.
I hear the comment and I like my Fender fretlesses.
A really smart money move would be to offer fretless as Mod Shop or Custom only and drop the unsupported and slow selling lines.

I would say your reasoning is flawed. The bottleneck is the production of the necks, as the body is thd same as the fretted model. Mating the fretless necks to one or two color bodies has to be a very minimal adfitional cost, and certainly within the realm of profitable business.
Sandberg is a fraction of Fender, do manufacture superior quality instruments at lower Customer prices.
That Fender remains so inefficient and/or greedy is not good for their long term business.
In my experience, they are becoming more of a "dentist's guitar", rather than mainly a musicians tool.

 

[Heavy Blue]

Sandberg is a fraction of Fender, do manufacture superior quality instruments at lower Customer prices.

Really? I’ve never priced up a Sandberg but have assumed it would be equal to or more than an MIA Fender given how many options you can have and the ones I’ve seen have been really really nice.

Ever since I watched the vid where Julia Hofer goes to the Sandberg factory to get hers I’ve wanted one.

 

[AlexanderB]

Really? I’ve never priced up a Sandberg but have assumed it would be equal to or more than an MIA Fender given how many options you can have and the ones I’ve seen have been really really nice.

Ever since I watched the vid where Julia Hofer goes to the Sandberg factory to get hers I’ve wanted one.

I could have been clearer on that one...
In Europe, Fenders are substantially higher in price, than the "corresponding" Sandberg offering. At least 10%, but more typicallt 20-25%.

In Sweden, MIA Professional Jazz V, a bit over €1900 street, the corresponding Sandberg (California TT passive) is €1683.

 

[Killing Floor]

I could have been clearer on that one...
In Europe, Fenders are substantially higher in price, than the "corresponding" Sandberg offering. At least 10%, but more typicallt 20-25%.

In Sweden, MIA Professional Jazz V, a bit over €1900 street, the corresponding Sandberg (California TT passive) is €1683.

I would assume Fender instruments from USA factory would cost more in Sweden. Likewise I would assume Sandberg are more cost in USA. Nice basses. I hope 2021 is a wonderful year for you all.