Fretless P FTW? (for Jazz Standards)

[Bassnkeys]

Focusing nearly exclusively on jazz. Straight-ahead Real Book stuff; formed occasional gigging trio with professional pianist.

I don’t play upright. Have obsessed (like embarrassing OCD-level) on tone. Bought a Rob Allen Mouse, compression and reverb pedals, and have spent hours (embarrassed) A/B’ing against recordings to get sound “just right.” Result = band members just don’t hear or notice any tonal difference.

I have a 5-string Fender American Precision; made a fretless neck for it. TI flats. Sounds nice, feels nice — maybe not aesthetically as “jazz-looking” as an upright — and I enjoy playing it more than the Rob Allen.

I think I need to get over looks and stop chasing for anything “better.” It’s a matter of degrees with diminishing returns. I’ve seen videos of Buddy Rich 70’s bassist with fretless P, and Chris Brubeck plays a plain-looking fretless Ric. I play at a MUCH lower level. What the <bleep> is my problem? Exploring expensive basses like Marleaux and another Rob Allen — but as a 5. Looking for the “perfect answer.” Answer = I probably already have 95% of what I need, and GAS + OCD = trouble.

 

[bassist4dalord]

Wow, a Fretless 5-string Precision! That’s unheard of. Very cool. I bet it’s a dream with the TIs.

I know how hard it is once you get caught up chasing tone. I’m glad you’ve found what works for you!

 

[g-dude]

You should consider going upright.

The sheer size will prevent how many you can accumulate and there’s not as much gear to obsess over.

 

[ChickenFingers]

Focusing nearly exclusively on jazz. Straight-ahead Real Book stuff; formed occasional gigging trio with professional pianist.

I don’t play upright. Have obsessed (like embarrassing OCD-level) on tone. Bought a Rob Allen Mouse, compression and reverb pedals, and have spent hours (embarrassed) A/B’ing against recordings to get sound “just right.” Result = band members just don’t hear or notice any tonal difference.

I have a 5-string Fender American Precision; made a fretless neck for it. TI flats. Sounds nice, feels nice — maybe not aesthetically as “jazz-looking” as an upright — and I enjoy playing it more than the Rob Allen.

I think I need to get over looks and stop chasing for anything “better.” It’s a matter of degrees with diminishing returns. I’ve seen videos of Buddy Rich 70’s bassist with fretless P, and Chris Brubeck plays a plain-looking fretless Ric. I play at a MUCH lower level. What the <bleep> is my problem? Exploring expensive basses like Marleaux and another Rob Allen — but as a 5. Looking for the “perfect answer.” Answer = I probably already have 95% of what I need, and GAS + OCD = trouble.

View attachment 4906450

That is a fantastic looking bass!

 

[nonohmic]

Beautiful bass.

What was wrong with the Rob Allen tho?

 

[atquinn]

I can't address your question, but I would like to know where you got your fretless neck from. I love my precision and would like to have something that's just like it but fretless.

 

[Bassnkeys]

Beautiful bass.

What was wrong with the Rob Allen tho?

Thanks. Nothing at all wrong with the RA. It’s a beautiful Mouse 30” 4-string — just find I’m more at home on a 5. RA 5’s are typically 35”, which is not for me. Also, I seem to be the only one who hears the tonal differences. No slight on the RA for that, either.

 

[Bassnkeys]

I can't address your question, but I would like to know where you got your fretless neck from. I love my precision and would like to have something that's just like it but fretless.

I built it via Warmoth around ‘14. They also sell fretless 4-string necks made by Fender (and others) on Reverb. Stratosphere is a big seller of Fender necks. I’ve seen really nice AllParts fretless necks. For 5-string fretless, Warmoth is the best bet, me thinks.

 

[logdrum]

Just play. Mr Steve swallow plays a fretted bass with a pick and top jazz cats do not have an issue with it. Good looking bass.

 

[JazznFunk]

If it allows you to get the tone you like, and get your ideas out, then it's all good. I play 'jazz' better on upright in terms of my idea development and feel, and the tone I want is found in double bass, but started playing jazz on fretless electric. Steve Swallow was mentioned.... I love his ideas and feel, but have never liked the tone he strives for. At least on the majority of the recordings he's on which I own, I always feel like he needs to be louder in the mix than he is, and more distinctly EQ'ed. But hey, that's his vibe and he's built a career around it. I just turn up my stereo when it's time for his solo.

 

[fdeck]

As another primarily upright player, I wouldn't hesitate to take that bass to a jazz gig. I learned jazz on fretless electric too, before I even considered getting an upright. My main instrument was supposedly the cello.

My one thought is that on the upright side, very few of us realistically get to own more than one or two basses in our lifetimes. I'm on upright #2, over a 40 year span. I'm also still playing the first electric that I owned. For this reason, much more effort goes into tone quality via practice, listening, and adapting to the peculiarities of your bass, than trying to find the right bass. When I see that someone's got a quality bass with a good setup, I'm satisfied that they have a reasonable chance of figuring out how to make jazz sound good on it.

 

[Ed Goode]

As a life-long Jazz DB player, my FWIW advice is to stop worrying about gear and spend as much time as possible listening to, and emulating, pro jazz bassists. The huge majority of a “jazz sound” comes from the playing style, not the instrument. If you’re chasing RealBook type stuff, spend time listening to John Clayton (Diana Kroll’s bassist) or Mike Karn (John Pizzarelli). These guys are modern players that are well recorded and flawless.

Other musicians don’t care what bass you play, they care about how well you can cop the jazz feel …..

 

[JRA]

Result = band members just don’t hear or notice any tonal difference.

they just want the right notes at the right time!

What the <bleep> is my problem?

i agree with your own self-assessment. relax, you're gonna need all you can muster when you're playing bebop every night!

good luck with your jazz experience!

 

[JazznFunk]

The huge majority of a “jazz sound” comes from the playing style, not the instrument.

Other musicians don’t care what bass you play, they care about how well you can cop the jazz feel …..

To a point, yes.... but there IS something about the sonic space and attack/sustain and 'air' to the timbre of the instrument that a double bass occupies that an electric bass can never 100% replace. That's why - for some - electric bass is shunned in some very traditionalist camps.

 

[Levent]

Result = band members just don’t hear or notice any tonal difference.View attachment 4906450

Believe me, only you and fellow bass players would notice that
I am in the same boat with g.a.s. and jazz Double bass is a matured instrument while bass guitar is still evolving. There is a new luthier making something new and a new hardware or pickups coming out every day. G.A.S. won't stop. You are in good shape with 5 string, fretless, some reverb and maybe something to add punch.
What your bandmates and other musicians in the audience would notice is If you played with more embellishments, anticipations, triplets, 16th dead notes, double stops, harder swing, chords, chord substitions, modal interchanges, Ron Carter drops, citing to melody, famous solos and other members phrases.. etc. etc.
These make It sound more double bassy too just because of context. People are used to hear these from a double bass.

 

[Bassnkeys]

As another primarily upright player, I wouldn't hesitate to take that bass to a jazz gig. I learned jazz on fretless electric too, before I even considered getting an upright. My main instrument was supposedly the cello.

My one thought is that on the upright side, very few of us realistically get to own more than one or two basses in our lifetimes. I'm on upright #2, over a 40 year span. I'm also still playing the first electric that I owned. For this reason, much more effort goes into tone quality via practice, listening, and adapting to the peculiarities of your bass, than trying to find the right bass. When I see that someone's got a quality bass with a good setup, I'm satisfied that they have a reasonable chance of figuring out how to make jazz sound good on it.

Everyone has been thoughtful with their ideas on this thread; yours particularly resonates with me (I inherently knew all this of course — but the GAS gods, OCD, and a touch of ADD need posts like this to put the demons at ease). Thanks to all for their helpful thoughts and reinforcement.

 

[Jason Hollar]

Upright is my primary jazz standards instrument. However, my USA Fender P with flats is my ersatz upright on otherwise electric bass gigs.

I would love to revisit a fretless P (or J) for jazz … but often I’m on a sax / bass / drum trio so I’ve really come to appreciate having frets in order to comp chords here and there.

 

[kesslari]

Just for yourself work up a version of “Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right”.
And enjoy swinging on that fine bass

 

[Dr. Cheese]

OP, play and play well. If you do that, you will be alright.

 

[BAG]

You should consider going upright.

The sheer size will prevent how many you can accumulate and there’s not as much gear to obsess over.

Except a decent upright can cost more than high-end custom basses. The cost of a set of strings alone could buy a decent entry level electric bass guitar.