• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Fretless: sound difference between Ebonol and wood?

#21
I have owned maple (coated with polyurathane), ebony and ebonal fretless necks. The ebonol sounds different--more punchy and Jaco-like. I would guess that it is comparable to epoxy.

Edit: to address the "mwah-ability" part of the question: while everyone who says it's more a matter of setup than board material is correct, there is a difference, in my experience. The amount of mwah is dependent on the setup, but the tonal balance, again, in my experience, is significantly affected by the board material. Ebonal is "sharper" sounding. More high mids.
 
Last edited:
#22
I'll admit that my bias is in play when it comes to Ebanol vs Ebony or Rosewood fingerboards. Since I've played Double Bass since I was
in middle school ( actually, Jr. High so you get a ball park idea of where I'm at on the age spectrum:roflmao:) I'm not fond of epoxied boards at all
that said I use flat wound strings exclusively and I like the feel of the actual wood because that what I'm used to. I don't see any need to make
playing in tune on a fretless instrument any more difficult than it already is but making it slicker. Just my take, for those who love it no offense ment.
The reality is that we're going to be seeing lots more Ebonol because Ebony has been over harvested for decades.
 
#25
Ric Vice said:
The reality is that we're going to be seeing lots more Ebonol because Ebony has been over harvested for decades.
Click to expand...
Taylor Guitars is doing something interesting in that respect. First they're trying to raise interest and acceptance of ebony that's not pure black. A lot of the overharvesting has been because loggers have been throwing away streaked ebony wood. Second they've bought a mill in Cameroon and develop sustainability programs to ensure steady future supply.

I doubt it'll fix everything but you've got to start somewhere. Musicians who insist that streaked ebony sounds bad or plays bad should probably not be told that the fingerboards on whatever stringed instrument they're playing was probably dyed black anyway, if it was made in the most recent couple decades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ric Vice and bholder
#26
Ender_rpm said:
Thanks!

The wood "zero fret" idea is interesting, I wonder if 10 years later his basses need repair on those?

But "0.010" is wee, thatll be fun.
Click to expand...
It's worth spending a while searching Luthier's Corner on the topic because elsewhere people discuss ways to do it. iirc one popular technique is to rest a feeler gauge on the fingerboard and file the slot down until the file touches the feeler gauge.

(edit: as for wear and tear, the 0 "fret" probably sees considerably less wear than the rest of the fingerboard, since the string only moves on it when being tuned. Since ebony is harder than most nut materials it should last a good while.)
 
Last edited:
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: bholder and Ender_rpm
#27
I have a 5 string with a Squire neck that had an Ebanol board that I defretted and played that way for a while then the truss rod broke and I routed off the fingerboard, replaced the fingerboard (wood but not with ebony), played it a little then coated the board in CA and played it more. Granted, not a side by side comparison but it was literally the same body, pickups, strings, etc. and I don’t recall a noticeable difference in tone before and after.

@Ender_rpm try what Ardgedee said with feeler gauges. If you haven’t done this before maybe start higher than 0.010,” say 0.015” and work down slowly. If you press down on a fret on a fretted bass look at the clearance between the string and the next fret. Theoretically that’s all the clearance you need at a fretless nut. In practice the string needs to be a little higher than that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ender_rpm
#29
Ender_rpm said:
I have a Sire fretless, and I think the nut is also cut for fretted. Any insight as to nut slot depth measurements off the fretboard one would want?
Click to expand...
From what I understand, The proper height at the nut should be one or two business cards. It should be a snug, not tight fit under the string at the nut. And the neck should be as flat as possible. I use chromes and get a good mwah out of my Ibanez SRH505F 5 string fretless. Good luck.;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholder
#31
Mwah comes down to several contributors, set up, strings and technique. I have a SVMFJ and love that dense fingerboard for the tone and stability, the closest I've ever found to compare to a Pedulla Buzz. I prefer round wounds on my SVMFJ but do have different strings on my other fretless basses.
 
#32
I picked up a used Squier VM Jaco style fretless Jazz some years ago. It had roundwounds and a good amount of mwah.

But when they factory buffed the Ebonol board to a high sheen to mimic an epoxy coating, they were too sloppy and aggressive.

The board was no longer level and flat. There were dips and rises along the length of it.

So it was semi unplayable without raising the action a bit.

I decided to remove the nut and level the board. I hand burnished it back up to a decent sheen without machine buffing and reassembled the bass.

The mwah was markedly reduced. I decided not to buff it and possibly reintroduce inaccuracies.

I ended up putting flats on it, played it the way it was for a while and then sold it.

In the ebony department, I have an early 80's G&L slots and hog E series fretless with an unlined ebony board.

That thing is the thickest, meatiest, potato-est bass in the world. But it has no mwah at all. It just wants to be the boss of the bottom.
 
#33
That was one of my first f'lesses purchased from Starving musician in Berkeley, I really liked it but i liked the Samick they had a little later more. I would've upgraded the neck pickup to a real Duncan and lighter tuners if i had kept it and put on Ernie ball round slinkies then i would've been very happy. Also i remember the nut slots were way too high so take care of that first, then take measurements before messing with trussrod, shim neck, pickup height, bridge saddles, the goal being to have it sound good unplugged, and then whatever electronics you need/want put in.
 
Last edited:
#34
I'v had fretless basses with wood, ebonite and ebonol fingerboards. The ebonol was, by far, the most "mwahable" bass I've ever owned - that board, with rounds on it? I've heard folks say they can play a fretless and make it sound fretted. There was no way in hell anyone could play that bass and make it not mwah. A lot of folks talk about how specific the technique has to be to coax mwah out of a bass. My ebonol bass? just play it, it'll mwah.
 
#35
Mystic Michael said:
My fretless basses all have epoxy-coated ebony fingerboards. I could have just skipped the epoxy coating, because ebony is very hard, as woods go. But I really prefer the pronounced brightness, sustain, resonance, tonal definition....and yes, mwah that I feel an epoxy coating provides. While I've never played an ebonol board, I assume its qualities would be very similar to ebony - but with maybe not quite as much brightness, sustain, resonance or tonal definition as an epoxy coating. YMMV.

MM
Click to expand...
Having owned instruments with ebonol, ebony, and epoxy coated boards, I can sat the ebonol is, by quite a margin, the mwah-iest surface. Ebonite is close, but no woods really are. If you don't have enough mwah on an ebonol board, you have very dead strings. Put on fresh rounds.
 
#36
ardgedee said:
Taylor Guitars is doing something interesting in that respect. First they're trying to raise interest and acceptance of ebony that's not pure black. A lot of the overharvesting has been because loggers have been throwing away streaked ebony wood. Second they've bought a mill in Cameroon and develop sustainability programs to ensure steady future supply.

I doubt it'll fix everything but you've got to start somewhere. Musicians who insist that streaked ebony sounds bad or plays bad should probably not be told that the fingerboards on whatever stringed instrument they're playing was probably dyed black anyway, if it was made in the most recent couple decades.
Click to expand...
One can only hope, Madagascar is a small island. Gaboon is a single state in Africa.
 
Last edited:
#38
FretLassie said:
When I bought my first fretless bass two years ago, the local music store only had one in stock, which I tried out. It was love at first sight, and I bought it immediately.

It's a Fender Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass and has an Ebonol fingerboard. I'm not entirely satisfied with the "mwahbility" and wonder if it would make a bigger difference if the fingerboard were ebony instead of ebonol.

What is the difference?
Click to expand...
Difference? Quite a bit, actually...
Ebonol is a now-generic trademark name for black micarta; much like Kleenex is a now-generic trademark for facial tissue. Micarta was invented sometime around 1920, for use as an insulating material for high voltage applications. It's made by impregnating many layers of linen or high quality paper with phenolic resin, then fusing everything together with high pressure and heat. Most of it was - and still is - green; but you can get it in just about any color you want, these days. Aluminum-necked Kramer guitars and basses, back in the 1970's, used Ebonol for fret- and fingerboards. I've owned several - and still own two. Mine are fretted basses; I've never owned a fretless bass with an Ebonol fingerboard; However, word on TB forums, is that Ebonol tends to be a little "bright", and lacking in tonal warmth. Which, TBH, is how they describe an epoxy-coated wood fingerboard, too. So, make of that what you will... In any case? They don't wear very much. I have an old Kramer bass neck that's had it's frets pulled, and turned into a fretless neck. From the wear on the Ebonol, it's obvious that 1) it's a linen based Micarta; and 2) it was played a lot, with round wound strings. But, the wear is almost entirely visual; it looks... kinda nasty, actually... but, it's dead flat, and feels smooth as glass...
As for Ebony? Well, it wood, obviously; and depending on the species? It varies from very, very hard to... not as hard as some other fret-fingerboard woods. Macassar Ebony is the most desirable for instruments, but... it's in very short supply these days. And that makes it... expensive. Standard, production instruments are not likely to use it. You're more likely to get one of the softer species, instead; just died black. However, they're still very nice, very useable fret/fingerboards. How does Ebony sound? 3 of my 4 fretless basses have Ebony fingerboards, and I'm pretty sure that 2 of them - the expensive, custom ones - have Macassar Ebony fingerboards. I also have 2 older, expensive guitars with Macassar Ebony fretboards. They sound very... well, I'd call it organic and woody, but... not "soft". There's a bite and a presence, but it's not "cold" or "hard", either. The one fretless - that's probably got a softer Ebony fingerboard? You'd have to play it back to back with one of the others, but... just a hair less bite and presence, maybe. They all wear different strings, and they're pretty different basses, too. So... How much is the fingerboard, and how much is... everything else? Who knows... I just play 'em - and enjoy 'em... :cool:
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back