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Fretlines: Am I nuts?

#41
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You can't make a more convincing statement against fretlines than this.

I've owned two fretless basses, both unlined. I have never wanted for lines, but then again my intonation is not very good (To be fair other musicians I play with don't agree with my assessment; they tell me my intonation is fine. I'm a bit of a perfectionist).
 
#43
bmc said:
Maybe I misread his statement that fretless bass guitarists have poor intonation. QUOTE]

Yes, you did. And there's nothing absurd about what I did say. Perhaps I went overboard using the word "vast", and should have kept it to a simple majority. But I stand by my assertion...that the majority of bass players who own a fretless have poor intonation. BTW, I consider less than excellent intonation as being effectively poor...either you is or you ain't in tune. Out of tune doesn't cut it, fretless or otherwise. There are many bassists who do have marvelous intonation on fretless, but they most certainly do not constitute a majority, nor anything approaching one.

Good intonation is not only a goal when playing fretless it is an absolute necessity. Good intonation is acheived when the player consistently places his or her fingers at exactly the correct point on the fingerboard. That skill is only attained through hours and hours of practice, assuming of course the player has the ability to hear whether or not he/she is playing in tune. The appearance of one's fingerboard has no effect whatsoever on the sound, but certainly can influence how quickly good intonation is developed.
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#47
great intonation is paramount, if you need lines or not to insure this... do what it takes~! Hours and hours of practicing with poor technique can be just as bad, I like having the lines so I can keep my practicing on target.

I don't necessarily need to be looking all of the time at the lines on gigs... but then again I currently bring the fretless out on tunes that need the mwah and that might need a little more simplistic bass lines. As my confidence and technique improves, I'll bring it out for more complex sh!t....

... in the words of Dizzy: “you better learn to play the mu$%@#uc@##r before you bring it onstage!”



Philbiker, being out of tune isn't a cool effect :hmm: ... Using vibrato might be, but only where necessary.
 
#49
Richard Lindsey said:
... which is why there's no really convincing argument against lines.;)

Seriously, man, that's a beautiful slab of wood. Is that macassar, or maybe vera? And what's the bass? I presume it's yours?
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You mean this one:

j-raj said:
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Paduak face and back, Ebony knobs and Cocbolo FB...
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Nope, mine.
 
#50
I have to say, I don't see what advantage those side lines have over side dots at strategic note locations (3/5/etc.). Seem like the same thing to me, and dots are a lot easier to see in a pinch. If you can't spot exactly where 4 would be from a dot on 3 and 5, or where 1 would be from a dot on 3 you have more problems than lines would possibly help with. IMO of course, but I've only been playing fretless for 5 of the 25 years I've been playing.
 
#51
Philbiker said:
Wow you must hate working with guitarrists who use chorus or flanger effects!
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Chorus and Flanger are effects that use a repeated vibrato-like shifting of pitch, which is still centered around the initial intended note... Which should still start off with the instrumentalist initially being in tune!!!

Right?
 
#52
Chorus and Flanger are effects that use a repeated vibrato-like shifting of pitch, which is still centered around the initial intended note... Which should still start off with the instrumentalist initially being in tune!!!
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Right. Resulting in a sound that's always a little out of tune when the effect is applied.

Throws me off bigtime when I'm playing fretless.
 
#54
Philbiker said:
Right. Resulting in a sound that's always a little out of tune when the effect is applied.
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...then it comes back, then it goes out, then it comes back....*repeat as needed*.

Just like vibrato, just like vibrato... just like vibrato. :o

Still centered around the initial note.



Dude, there is something that is called the psycho-acoustic phenomenon, ever hear of it? It basically has a lot to do with what our 'brain' will psycologically complete for our ears.

One example of the PAP is when you are on the phone with some that has a very low voice (let's say below 200hz)... since most receivers on a telephone only go down to 300hz, our 'ear' (really it's our brain, but you get the picture) does the rest to complete the perceived low note that we think we heard over the phone.

Another example (more relevant to our conversation here)With vibrato, modulating frequencies or repeated shifts in intonation, our ear/brain naturally has tendencies to 'center' tonically the note to what it is close to in proximity. That is why when playing a sustained note on fretless instrument, it is good to practice a smooth and even vibrato that is analogous to a sustained operatic vocalist.
 
#55
1. Enough of the fretlines vs. no fretlines intonation BS! If you like them, use them if not don't. Toss that one around in the one hundred other threads about that topic. The original question was if I was too concerned about the looks of the type of fretlines I was going to use.

2. I've made up my mind with the help of both Keith and Gard. Gard showed Keith the sidelines pictures from j-raj, and Keith said that he would do it! That's what I'm going to go with. Thank's J-raj again!

3. A lot of thanks have to go to both Keith and Gard for helping me through this process. I've been calling Gard daily for the past week (and a few days last week too). Both Keith and Gard have read and responded to a number of e-mails I've sent them together and individually. They sent me pictures when asked too. Great customer service by both!
 
#60
Nick man said:
Im on the same boat.

When Im playing unlinned I just use my ears and muscle memory to guide my hands to the right place, but when I play a linned fretless I spend to much time looking and worrying
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Then quit looking and stop worrying;)


Initially I was an unlined guy. For years I thought lines messed me up. Then I thought about it and realized they didn't.

It really was that complicated.

There is no physical reason lines should make a difference... if "you" don't dwell on them. This all boils down to playing the bass in your hands. A friend of mine told me about difficulties he was having because the side dots on his fretless weren't intonated properly. I played the bass will no difficulty.

Must be the bass.

:hmm:

These are all fretlesses and I make no conscious distinction between them when I play them... other than "This one has lines" and "This one doesn't".

http://www.talkbass.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=852&size=big&password=0&sort=1&cat=500
 

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