Fretting hand position FAIL

[trigg015]

Hi guys,

Beginner issues over here.
I can't seem to get the position of my fretting hand (right hand in my case) right which results in a stiff arm and a painful wrist.

I have problems placing my thumb on the neck and that results that it's pretty hard for me to play notes on the lower strings (especially with little finger). Also I'm struggling trying to mute higher strings and and the same time using a relaxed and neutral position.

You can see my struggles over here:


I already watched a lot of youtube video's and I've read about the C-shape (which some people think it's good and others think it's bad), pointing thumb to the headstock or not placing the thumb on the neck at all... loads of options, but I'm not making progress atm.

I have a shortscale bass and fairly big hands, so reaching certain frets should not be an issue. However,.. it is

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[two fingers]

1) Get a strap. Use it whenever possible. It appears as though the top right corner of your palm (when facing you) where the index finger meets the palm is having to occasionally hold up your bass neck.

2) Your bass head seems to be pointing away from your body somewhat. That is going to change the ergonomics of playing. This, on my view, also comes from sitting and letting your lap and/or belly destrmine the position of your bass. (Hard to tell from the video.)

3) There's a chance your short scale bass is literally too small for your hands. I know there's no way I could play one for a four-hour gig. I play 35" scale 19mm spaced five strings because I prefer extra room. My big hands would not enjoy a shorty.

But try standing when you can and use a strap, at least until you developed better ergonomic habits. Your thumb should be directly behind your fingers, nit off to the side. That's causing a twist in your hand, which is not natural motion for your muscles and joints ...the root cause of your soreness and stiffness.

 

[SteveCS]

I think you are taking the idea of the straight wrist and horizontal thumb a bit too literally. Compare your hand here...

to mine, here...

...
and here...

You need to get drop your forearm and get the circled meat of your hand under the neck, not behind it - see the arrow. The curvature in the fingers should start at the wrist such that each joint is taking a little. Every straight joint means more bending in the others. Your fingers need to be relaxed if they are to be nimble and agile. If they are taking all of the strain just in making the curve necessary to get tip to string they are going to be difficult to move.

I also concur with @two fingers about how you appear to be holding the instrument - it looks very cramped and "drawn in", and the off-centred thumb will not be helping. If you don't have a strap or you want to continue sitting, perhaps try putting the bass on your other thigh - this will push the neck into a position where you have to get your elbow away from your body - this in turn will help get the smooth curves into your wrist and hand.

 

[trigg015]

@SteveCS and @two fingers

thank you VERY much for the detailed feedback and advice.

I'm now trying to drop my forearm, putting the thumb not in the center of the neck and and I'm experienting with the bass guitar on my right thigh (yes I'm left handed) and pointing it a bit more upwards. This seems to help.. less pain in the right hand. Looks a bit weird on the picture though

 

[two fingers]

@SteveCS and @two fingers

thank you VERY much for the detailed feedback and advice.

I'm now trying to drop my forearm, putting the thumb not in the center of the neck and and I'm experienting with the bass guitar on my right thigh (yes I'm left handed) and pointing it a bit more upwards. This seems to help.. less pain in the right hand. Looks a bit weird on the picture though

Doesn't look weird at all to me. That's a more proper position from an ergonomics standpoint.

Sweet looking finish on that bass. Best of luck with your hand.

 

[fearceol]

I agree with the advice to use a strap both when sitting and standing. I know you have watched a few videos on left hand technique. Here is one more which I think is worth checking out.

 

[SteveCS]

@SteveCS and @two fingers

thank you VERY much for the detailed feedback and advice.

I'm now trying to drop my forearm, putting the thumb not in the center of the neck and and I'm experienting with the bass guitar on my right thigh (yes I'm left handed) and pointing it a bit more upwards. This seems to help.. less pain in the right hand. Looks a bit weird on the picture though

It doesn't look weird. It might feel weird for a while but it looks much more relaxed with smoother curves and reduced tension. Once again I'm with @two fingers - I really would recommend getting a strap just to maintain that position and free things up a little. A lot of what you need to do as a beginner is establish a consistent spatial relationship between your shoulders, arms, hands, fingers and the bass itself. Using the strap will expedite this process - it will allow you to repeatably position the bass in such a way (as you have it there) that ensures your hands automatically adopt the most ergonomic shape to play freely and without strain and injury. This will also start to teach your arm and hand muscles where the notes are.

BTW - Nice looking Sire - is that the 'U5' model?

 

[Lobster11]

Good advice above. I'll just add that the pointing-your-thumb-toward-the-headstock thing is most important/useful when playing down near the nut -- especially on a full-scale bass. As you move up the fretboard, you might find that your thumb is more comfortable being perpendicular to the neck rather than parallel to it or somewhere in between. As long as you keep it behind the neck, let your thumb position vary in whatever feels comfortable. It doesn't really have much work to do, so the important thing is that your hand stay relaxed so your fretting fingers can do their job.

 

[trigg015]

BTW - Nice looking Sire - is that the 'U5' model?

Yes, it's the U5. Great bass!

I will try the strap as many of you suggested. I can understand that it helps to balance out things.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

The most important thing to remember is don't get discouraged and start slow. Practicing things slowly will get you up to speed. Tension and high expectations will result in exactly nothing, worse, injury.

Initially, frequent workouts and sufficient rest will get more results quicker than fewer long sessions. After awhile the gains will provide a positive feedback loop: touching the bass will be like stimming

We all went through what you are experiencing, more or less. Let pain/tension be your guide in what to do and not to do. The process is discovery: find out what works for you and have fun with it.

PS. You have an awesome little bass.

 

[JW56789]

I'm always hesitant to make technique suggestions, as every time I'm convinced 'you can't play it like THAT' I see someone doing just that and killing it. But since you asked:

How you wear the instrument, how it fits you is a very individual thing, and we're all a bit different. But from looking at your vid I'd suggest this:

As others have said, you need to get neck more parallel to your body, that angle is making you reach, and I'd suggest your thumb pointing down the neck is a strain as well.

Often, if I'm sitting and playing, with or without a strap, I'll put it in my lap as a classical guitar player would do it: The cutaway on the bottom of the bass on one leg, with the butt end resting against the other inside thigh. This will put it right where it needs to be for most people.

When you look down, just like you see the four fingertips basically pointing at you, you want the thumb doing the same thing: You want to see all five fingertips, not four and a thumb pointing north. I'd also try and keep that thumb along the centerline of the back of the neck. You may sometimes slip closer to one edge or the other to reach the E or G, but you generally want to stay along that centerline, and reach around where you're playing with the four fingertips on the strings.

Imagine your thumb and the four fingers forming a V shape with the neck cradled in it. The best way to envision it would be to bring your fretting hand's elbow in to your belly, form your hand in that shape on that forearm bent out at a comfortable angle. Move your elbow off your belly a bit, and that's where the bass needs to hang, or sit on your leg, the neck cradled in your fret hand right around there.

In piano, we're taught to raise the bench until the top of our hands stays roughly level with the top of our forearms. This is what you want to shoot for on electric bass. You will bend your wrists a bit, you just want to stay away from a hard, 90-degree sort of bend: For some, this is begging for wrist problems over time.

 

[IamGroot]

I'm always hesitant to make technique suggestions, as every time I'm convinced 'you can't play it like THAT' I see someone doing just that and killing it. But since you asked:

How you wear the instrument, how it fits you is a very individual thing, and we're all a bit different. But from looking at your vid I'd suggest this:

As others have said, you need to get neck more parallel to your body, that angle is making you reach, and I'd suggest your thumb pointing down the neck is a strain as well.

Often, if I'm sitting and playing, with or without a strap, I'll put it in my lap as a classical guitar player would do it: The cutaway on the bottom of the bass on one leg, with the butt end resting against the other inside thigh. This will put it right where it needs to be for most people.

When you look down, just like you see the four fingertips basically pointing at you, you want the thumb doing the same thing: You want to see all five fingertips, not four and a thumb pointing north. I'd also try and keep that thumb along the centerline of the back of the neck. You may sometimes slip closer to one edge or the other to reach the E or G, but you generally want to stay along that centerline, and reach around where you're playing with the four fingertips on the strings.

Imagine your thumb and the four fingers forming a V shape with the neck cradled in it. The best way to envision it would be to bring your fretting hand's elbow in to your belly, form your hand in that shape on that forearm bent out at a comfortable angle. Move your elbow off your belly a bit, and that's where the bass needs to hang, or sit on your leg, the neck cradled in your fret hand right around there.

In piano, we're taught to raise the bench until the top of our hands stays roughly level with the top of our forearms. This is what you want to shoot for on electric bass. You will bend your wrists a bit, you just want to stay away from a hard, 90-degree sort of bend: For some, this is begging for wrist problems over time.

Well said.

I am not qualified to give advice on technique.
When I sit, I hold my bass vertical like an upright about 50% of the time, esp. if walking jazz lines.
When playing standing up, I sometimes take the strap off and play the bass vertical , resting it on a stool. A lot of times that isnt cool with the the other guys, but it feels OK to me.

I use a mix of arm weight and thumb pressure to fret. Mostly arm weight. If you play an electric like an upright, you can get some very clean fast passages going.

 

[themickster]

Hi guys,

Beginner issues over here.
I can't seem to get the position of my fretting hand (right hand in my case) right which results in a stiff arm and a painful wrist.

I have problems placing my thumb on the neck and that results that it's pretty hard for me to play notes on the lower strings (especially with little finger). Also I'm struggling trying to mute higher strings and and the same time using a relaxed and neutral position.

You can see my struggles over here:


I already watched a lot of youtube video's and I've read about the C-shape (which some people think it's good and others think it's bad), pointing thumb to the headstock or not placing the thumb on the neck at all... loads of options, but I'm not making progress atm.

I have a shortscale bass and fairly big hands, so reaching certain frets should not be an issue. However,.. it is

Any help would be appreciated!

Let go of the neck. Loosen your hand and shake it. Hold the neck with your hand how is after shaking. That's your natural holding position and the best for comfort.

 

[cnltb]

My 2p...

Do not over-thing the issue.

1) Shoulder needs to be relaxed - it avoids injury.
2) Elbow needs room to move.(never rest it on your knee when seated)
3) Thumb also moves and does not always have to sit oposite a fretting finger. - it helps to prevent injzry
4) Sit up straight, as general posture will affect your playing position. - It helps to avoid injury.
5) Use a strap always as that supports proper posture - Proper posture avoids injury.
6) Breathe deeply and evenly(in through the nose, out through the mouth) as that supports relaxation, which helps to avoid injury.
7) plant your feet solid on the ground when practicing.

You should not feel like you have to support the neck of our bass with your fretting hand.


The more you play the easier that posture thing will become.
Remember it is all about avoiding injury and playing-comfort!

 

[trigg015]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the additional advice.
At this point I can say that the tip yesterday from @SteveCS to put the bass guitar on my other thigh was the best advice I could get.

I had to get used to this new position yesterday, but today it feels so much more comfortable and less cramped and because of that I have no stiff & painful arm/wrist anymore in my fretting hand. Reaching notes on the low E-string with the little finger is a breeze and speed and accuracy increase every hour

Case closed (for now)