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from a foreigners perspective :-)

#61
bmc said:
It's interesting that you raise the diet issue, Bruce, because it applies not only to what is eaten over here, but also to the attitude towards food. Back home, we obsess with "don't eat this because it causes cancer", "don't eat that because of this ailment". You just don't here it here.

Food is served in much smaller quantities in restaurants and at home. Processed food is not popular, nor are hamburger joints. Sure we have McDonalds, but I believe that is the only foreign hamburger outlet in Switzerland. To boot, there are a handful of McDonalds in the major cities. Junk food is just not popular. Meals are to be enjoyed, not jammed into a busy schedule.

Here's another difference some of you will shake your heads at. People shut down their stores for 2-3 weeks in August for summer holidays. Music stores are closed. You can't find open stores. From a North American perspective, this is madness. From a Swiss perspective, it's summer vacation time....I'm outta here. Stores close at 7pm each night. Car dealerships close at 6pm each day and they are only open from 9-noon on Saturdays. Sundays, everything is closed. You have to take a vacation day to buy a car.

As crazy as it drives you at first, you soon find Sunday is your best day of the week. There is nothing to do but relax, hike, cycle, cruise, etc.
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I actually wish the US did more of this kind of stuff. It's almost impossible to work in retail in this country because you have to live in the stores during the busy season. You can do it but it takes a special mentality.

The US is a very materialistic society, I find myself "thinning out the herd" constantly because I don't want the mentality of just hoarding stuff. The good thing is this drives the economy and it is much easier to find employment with a good standard of living in the US then many countries. We are one of the most productive economies on the planet, unfortunately that eliminates much free time.

On one hand we'll claim that salaries haven't kept up with the cost of living, on the other hand we have a middle class that lives in 3500 sq. foot houses with plasma TV's, heated garages, and we buy "gourmet" dog food which we load in our leather interior, heated seat SUV's and use the navigational system to get back home. The middle class in this country live as good as much of our wealthy did forty years ago. But we do work harder, almost too hard.
 
#62
bmc said:
Speaking with friends that have left here for London, they had more disposable income here. Salaries, like anywhere else, take cost of living into consideration.
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Well yes - that's part of my consideration - so if I was earning the same salary, then I'd be doing OK - but I'm really thinking about retiring to mainland Europe and living on less money!

The Swiss can be very uptight. The price for being uptight is a very orderly country that is very safe. We often forget to lock the house at night. You very rarely see police cars, to the extent that you get nervous when you see one. You can drop off gear at a club for a gig, jump back in your car to find a parking spot and return 20 minutes later and not worry about your gear walking away. You can leave gear in your car and not worry about a breakin. I would never do that in France, mind you, but Switzerland is safe that way.
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It's like this in parts of Greece/Greek Islands, I have visited and this does attact me! :)
 
#63
Well, here's yet another difference. Vacations. The norm is 20 days a year for many Europeans. That's four weeks. Many people work till 5-6pm and go home. How many of you get 2 weeks holiday?

True, the cost of living is much higher here. But salaries compensate for it. Still, though, in relative numbers, it's outragiously expensive. For example, a 1,000 sq foot bungalow will cost around USD 700,000. Groceries for a family of four runs around USD 250 a week. Dinner in a pizzeria for four will cost around $100. An oil change runs around $100.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in a major city is around $1500-2000 a month. I'm sure Bruce could give you some crazy housing numbers for the London area.
 
#65
Bruce Lindfield said:
- but I'm really thinking about retiring to mainland Europe and living on less money! )
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There are some truly beautiful places to live in France. We're surrounded by the Savoie region and it's gorgeous. Great wines to be consumed (Cote du Rhone, Haute Savoie, Burgundy is 2 hours away, etc). Then there's all them French chicks in thongs that.....never mind...another thread. :D
 
#66
More than a million Britons have fled the country to lead new lives abroad since the turn of the Millennium, new figures showed.

The number of British citizens who emigrate each year has gone up by more than a third since the mid-1990s.

And while more and more people are quitting to live in France, Spain, Australia or America, fewer Britons are coming back from abroad to live at home than at any time in a decade.

The picture of an increasing flow of emigrants came in an official count of migration that showed foreigners continue to flood into this country in unprecedented numbers.

The Office for National Statistics said that 565,000 people came into the country last year - around 1,500 every day. It found that 474,000 of these were foreigners intending to live in Britain.

That means that the population grew by around 500 people a day because of the greater number of immigrants than emigrants.

However the reckoning of immigration showed only 80,000 Eastern Europeans, a figure thought by most independent analysts to be hugely below the real level. The count of those leaving - likely to be more accurate - showed that for the second year running around 200,000 Britons left the country: the total going abroad to live was 380,000 including 198,000 UK citizens.

Numbers of Britons emigrating now compare with just under 150,000 in 1997, a level that held steady throughout the 1990s. But the emigration boom since the turn of the Millennium shows that, by the official count, 1.1 million Britons have left the country in six years while fewer than 600,000 have returned from abroad - an overall loss of around half a million British citizens
 
#67
but isnt this a traditional english meal bruce :)
MVC-019F.jpg
 
#69
Not any more (and only ever after 6 pints on a Friday night ;) ) :



Scientists urge ban on cod catch

Once again scientists are urging an end to unsustainable fishing
A complete ban on North Sea cod fishing in 2007 is the main recommendation to European governments from their scientific advisors on fisheries.

The International Council for the Exploration of the Sea (Ices) says stocks of cod, sandeel and anchovy remain below sustainable limits.

Ices has made the same recommendation on cod for the last four years, but ministers have gone against it.

The full report is released on Friday, with quotas decided in December.
 
#73
vindy500 said:
fish n chips.


please note, this is a very bad example, its not usually quite as nasty as this. sure tastes good tho
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In Denmark, deep-fried, breaded plaice fish fillets served with French fries (Danish, pomfritter) probably outsells other cooked fish - just about every restaurant in the country serves this dish. Traditionally, it has an accompaniment of remoulade sauce and lemon wedges.


http://experts.about.com/e/f/fi/fish_and_chips.htm
 
#74
Bruce Lindfield said:
In Denmark, deep-fried, breaded plaice fish fillets served with French fries (Danish, pomfritter) probably outsells other cooked fish - just about every restaurant in the country serves this dish. Traditionally, it has an accompaniment of remoulade sauce and lemon wedges.
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sure sure, ive never had fish in this country though.. Fish and chips is very very popular back home in new zealand though. its good stuff
 
#75
Hey Bruce....what's more popular in Brighton, fish and chips or curry? :D

We spent New Year's Eve in front of Big Ben with 200,000 people. It would have been very interesting to know what the ethnic mix was. Huge sub continent influx in the past decade.

Sadly, Swiss border guards are somewhat racist. We live about 2 miles from the French border, so we're back and forth across it every other day. Good luck crossing seamlessly if you are black, or of Asian decent. You will ALWAYS get stopped. Even if you have diplomatic license plates (due to the UN in Geneva). Although I don't fall into one of those categories, it really ticks me off.

Aside from that, we have a very diverse ethnic population in the Geneva region, driven by the 400 plus NGO's (non-government organizations) and the UN. The diversity is so strong that it does not feel Swiss at all. It is very neutral. Yet, cross the border into France, two miles from the city Centre and you are clearly in France. The dramatic sudden change from country to country is one of the most interesting dimensions of life in Europe.

Marjazzbassist...I really hope for your sake that you have the opportunity to live in Europe. It's complex, it's magical, it's different, it's got passion, it's got history. It's a very broadening experience.
 
#76
My aunt is british and made us fish and chips when I used to work for my uncle (a fish monger)... It was like sex on a piece of butcher paper. I make it for my roommates.

Addressing the greasy food issue: I read this book last summer called The Culture Codes, the author, a french marketing guy made the point that americans have this vastly different concept of eating from the rest of the world. While everyone else eats food for the actual taste, americans tend to consider it "fuel," hence all the fast food ****. It actually hit a nerve with me when I went into starbucks with my gf and I really wanted an espresso, but I forgot starbucks' philosophy regarding my little flavorful gem.

"Can I get an espresso?"
"How many shots?'
"huh?...one... I guess."
Rather than consuming consuming it for it's distinct flavor, they market espresso as a caffeine boost, despite the fact that it has less caffeine than regular coffee or green tea. And don't bother asking for a cafe mocchiato...it's just not the same.

However, when I was in spain last winter I was completely taken aback by how many freaking KFCs are over there. That's just ridiculous. I counted four within 5 blocks of my hotel in madrid. You guys gotta get a handle on that. Get that crap out of there.
 

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