Double Bass Fuchs discontinuing Walter Woods and Acoustic Image service

[Don Kasper]

...from the BG side today.
Enjoy!

• Today at 10:46 AM

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Sorry to announce we are no longer accepting Woods or AI amps for repair.

In the case of the Woods amps, we're running into a brick wall with devices having their numbers removed, so replacement is basically impossible. With the devices we CAN identify, we're finding many to be obsolete. While we have fixed some of these amps, the return on time invested (when compared to other traditional amps), cannot be justified. I worked with two other gifted techs around the world, who have also decided to no longer be involved in the project. Since attempts to communicate with Walter have been fruitless, the case is closed.

In the case of AI amps, its somewhat similar. While Rick's son was willing to send schematics, in many cases replacing the pc boards (which are densely populated surface mount boards), was the only repair path. Since there are no boards available (actually no parts of any kind), we're no longer accepting these amps for repair.

Thanks all. Sorry it had to come to this.

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

Sorry to hear this.

Makes me think of the time when I bought a new WW from Walter back in '92. I called him up and reported to him that it was sounding "scratchy", and he generously walked me through a cleaning process that involved a screwdriver, dental pick, and an hour of his time walking this kid in Kansas (me) through the procedure on the phone.

What a patient man, a true gentleman. Thank you wherever you are, Mr. Woods.

 

[Geepers]

Any mention of Walter Woods amps and I’m straight back in the room with Jim Stinnett. Man I miss the big fella

 

[groooooove]

for those interested, i'll give an endorsement to the WW clone that fuchs makes. it really does sound just like the original.

a shame the old ones can't be repaired, but that seems to be something walter understood about his own legacy.

a shame because the amps were amazing.

 

[LHbassist]

Recently, I bought a Walter Woods green light. I knew it needed repair, but took a shot. Well, the kind folks at Fuchs were very helpful, but it seems mine is unrepairable. I do remember seeing a post here - someone took one and installed a new power supply, and made it work again. That may be something I imagined, but I swear I saw the post/ comment. If anyone wants my Woods for parts, or they can actually repair it- it is listed in the classifieds here. Shame, cause it's in beautiful cosmetic condition.

 

[Hasty]

Oh no. I guess that means my AI isn't gonna be my primary gigging rig anymore, or I need to find a compatible head that fits in that little TEN2 housing securely.

I knew this day would come, but I'm not emotionally prepared for it. sigh...

 

[turf3]

I think it's pretty shortsighted in amp manufacturers to make their products essentially unrepairable without either access to the one person who knows what the mystery components are, or a complete new re-spin of boards with surface mount components. We, the musicians, keep using these things for decades if they meet our needs. The amp is part of the instrument if you're an electric bass player, and in many upright bass contexts it is too. Pretty much everything on an electric bass or upright bass can be repaired, or replaced, or a new component made from scratch for short money - but not in the amplifier.

 

[GregHolmes]

Hopefully, you'll be happy to hear that I am repairing Acoustic Image amps. All models, including circuits, crossovers, and speakers. I was the AI dealer here in Canada for over twenty years, and of course use the amps for my own gigs.

 

[Ric Vice]

Unfortunately, my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra (Blue Light) sits in the basement as a backup for the very repair able Grace Felix. which was built for professional musicians and backed by their impeccable service department. Granted, it’s an expensive box, but it’s built to last. Just my take. Walter built quality bass amplifiers that have lasted for decades. There just isn’t any replacement part support for older discrete solid state amplifiers like that which exists for simpler design tube amps. Effectively I don’t think there’s any market for it in our “planned obsolescent” component manufacturing business. Just my take however.

 

[groooooove]

Oh no. I guess that means my AI isn't gonna be my primary gigging rig anymore, or I need to find a compatible head that fits in that little TEN2 housing securely.

I knew this day would come, but I'm not emotionally prepared for it. sigh...

for what it's worth, i went through the same thing with my markbass amp i'd had and relied on professionally since 2008. Turns out it was easier to find a better amp than i thought (ended up with a genz benz shuttlemax 9.2) - and there are many amp manufacturers that make them repairable indefinitely. genz benz and mesa both come to mind in this context. Obviously the two companies share some lineage here, but they do make solid products that sound good and are easy to use.

I think it's pretty shortsighted in amp manufacturers to make their products essentially unrepairable without either access to the one person who knows what the mystery components are, or a complete new re-spin of boards with surface mount components. We, the musicians, keep using these things for decades if they meet our needs. The amp is part of the instrument if you're an electric bass player, and in many upright bass contexts it is too. Pretty much everything on an electric bass or upright bass can be repaired, or replaced, or a new component made from scratch for short money - but not in the amplifier.

in the case of a company like markbass, they just run the numbers and decide it's cheaper to make disposable amps than repairable ones. They also (specifically MB) don' keep parts in stock for very long after a model is discontinued. a shame.

lots other companies, in addition to genz and mesa, make repairable amplifiers to last a lifetime. hell, the Fuchs clone of the WW is made this way to be repaired at the component level.

i agree though, it's a shame. and the vast majority of people purchasing amps are not thinking this way the day they buy it. I'll never own another amp that can't be repaired if needed.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

I'm not going to address the IP protection issues, but you have to realize that musical instrument amplification is a VERY tiny subset of electronic products and, for very real and legitimate reasons, the global component market isn't concerned with maintaining legacy devices from decades ago used by a very tiny industry. There isn't enough annual silicon growth and production lines around the world to continue manufacturing literally millions of unique components just to sell a few hundred of one thing or another every year or 2. Silicon manufacturing has improved dramatically in the last 40yrs. The production lines used to manufacture 40yr old MOSFETS and other components are long gone, and it's not because of "planned obsolesence" - it's because there are much better and more efficient ways to do things now.

Unless a company is willing to sell their rights to another company who can keep the engineering up to date, there's not much that can be done after a certain point. Giving away schematics is one thing; giving the rights (and design and manufacturing documentation) to continue manufacturing new designs under the original name is something else.

 

[Don Kasper]

Yes. Thank you for stating and clarifying these obvious points.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Yes. Thank you for stating and clarifying these obvious points.

Of course! It's the least I could do.

Another obvious point: the bulk users of these types of components are industrial users where there is no emotion attached to the product. It serves it's useful life driving motors or whatever and then gets replaced when the system wears out from constant use.

 

[Hasty]

Unfortunately, my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra (Blue Light) sits in the basement as a backup for the very repair able Grace Felix. which was built for professional musicians and backed by their impeccable service department. Granted, it’s an expensive box, but it’s built to last. Just my take. Walter built quality bass amplifiers that have lasted for decades. There just isn’t any replacement part support for older discrete solid state amplifiers like that which exists for simpler design tube amps. Effectively I don’t think there’s any market for it in our “planned obsolescent” component manufacturing business. Just my take however.

That's one of many reasons I bought my Felix. A super versatile tool and I figured if my main gigging amps ever met their unfortunate demise I could just move to a power amp only workflow. Either powered cabs or a rackmount power amp and cab affair.

 

[Hasty]

for what it's worth, i went through the same thing with my markbass amp i'd had and relied on professionally since 2008. Turns out it was easier to find a better amp than i thought (ended up with a genz benz shuttlemax 9.2) - and there are many amp manufacturers that make them repairable indefinitely. genz benz and mesa both come to mind in this context. Obviously the two companies share some lineage here, but they do make solid products that sound good and are easy to use.

If I ever bought a used amp/cab combo it would probably be a Genz Benz. However I'm slowly moving towards the modular preamp/power amp phase of my life.

 

[james condino]

Oh no. I guess that means my AI isn't gonna be my primary gigging rig anymore.....

Why????? This comment makes zero sense. I've played over 500 gigs on mine with never a single issue and it still works great. If it does have some issues, I'll roll with it and still get through the gig. These are mass produced consumer objects, not heirloom investments.

Do you drive a used car to the gig? Do you play with old people or unhealthy people. Play long enough and you'll see one of your friends have a heart attack on stage. Does anyone else in the band bring used equipment. Every gig is an exercise in being flexible and adaptable. Equipment breaks. Rooms get messed up. Cars break. Accidents happen. Successful gigging is about being an adaptable human who can handles all of the changes in the work environment.

As for the Fuchs amps, how TF can anyone make a new amp designed for gigging and only go down to 4 ohms rating?????????? I've blown dozens of cabinets on the gig and the Acoustic Image ability to use random house cabs and go down to 2 ohms has been a proven asset many times that saved the day.

"You dadgumn'd kidz get off my lawn. You'll mess up my parts for that 60 year old carburetor!"

 

[Hasty]

Why????? This comment makes zero sense. I've played over 500 gigs on mine with never a single issue and it still works great. If it does have some issues, I'll roll with it and still get through the gig. These are mass produced consumer objects, not heirloom investments.

Do you drive a used car to the gig? Do you play with old people or unhealthy people. Play long enough and you'll see one of your friends have a heart attack on stage. Does anyone else in the band bring used equipment. Every gig is an exercise in being flexible and adaptable. Equipment breaks. Rooms get messed up. Cars break. Accidents happen. Successful gigging is about being an adaptable human who can handles all of the changes in the work environment.

At the time it felt like a perfectly acceptable knee jerk reaction. I don't view it as an heirloom investment, but I have played some sketchy places with it. In my mind I'm thinking those are the places it won't go to anymore. I did have to send it to Rick a couple of times for repair so I know it's not infallible. I also have other amps I gig with just as much, so it's not like I have to go out and buy something else. Unfortunately three of those amps are from Euphonic Audio... however they're in better shape than the AI amp. Well two of them are anyways.

I do play with some pretty old people as well. One of our on-stage jokes is introducing the drummer as "The oldest jazz drummer we know". We'll keep him around as long as we can. He's 78 but plays like he's 48.

 

[Don Kasper]

my parts for that 60 year old carburetor!"

Is it a Holley? Knowing you, ( james ), it is a 4-barrel. (just one? Doubt it.)
Probably mounted on an Edelbrock manifold, sitting over an Isky camshaft, dumping noise into some Hooker headers.
Amirite?

 

[Jeff Kissell]

Apropos of nothing(everything?)… I sold my AI Heads and I ended up with a Mesa Boogie Subway D-350. Mostly because I love how it sounds and I feel it’s more useful to me… but also because it was built (and is repairable) 100 miles from me AND has a 5 year warranty. Back in the day, I used GKs for the same reasons.
I’m not judging others choices but the local thing is definitely compelling.

 

[brianrost]

Just because the amps can’t be repaired I’m not going to stop using them. I’ll stop if and when they actually break down. If an amp brand is known to be unreliable, that’s one thing. If it’s known to be nearly bulletproof, like vintage Peaveys and GKs, then there’s no worries.