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Double Bass Full Circle Design flaws

T

Thumpie

Feb 4, 2010
711
6
Triangle Area, NC
#1
My "new" bass has a Fishman Full Circle, and I'm liking it. For once, I'm plugging into my Acoustic Image without tweaking the EQ--the pickup does a good job of making the bass sound like the bass.

I've got a couple of gripes though:

1. Why in the world did they make the wire white?!? That's just silly. It should be brown or black.

2. Now this one might be due to my ignorance, but it seems like you can adjust the pickup's response by turning it to the outside of the bridge (I read Fishman's installation instructions). But I haven't been able to figure out how to do this independently of adjusting bridge height. This "feature" doesn't seem like a feature at all. It's more of a limitation.

Am I wrong, or is it possible to adjust the bridge height and pickup's position independently?
 
#2
No, you're mostly right. You can adjust the bridge without changing the tone, but only in 1/2 turns. I think that I remember that the wire facing the fingerboard at top-dead-center is the same as the wire facing the tailpiece at tdc, so you have the turn the wheel 180 degrees to sound the same. If I'm wrong about that, then it's a full turn, which of course is worse.

Conversely, moving the adjuster an 1/8 turn or a 1/4 turn is a useful way to change the tone to the room, but it also changes the bridge height (slightly).

Very good pickup sonically in my time with it. Nothing better, less finicky or consistent that I've tried, but I had some issues with the design over time too. Can't blame them, they did something different than anyone else ever has and the result is very good. I miss the performace of it, but am happy to have it off of my bass at the same time.
 
#4
The adjustment is in 1/4 turns.... Think of a clock [ 12 o'clock, 3,6,9 o'clock] a Compass [N,S,E and W]
These are the MIDDLE of the leg positions for the pickup.
The corners of the leg are the other option and how your bridge is cut, how centered is the hole, how flat the surface the post side of the pickup sits all come into play here. Then there might be 1/8 of a turn positions depending on your bass and your ears.....
The wire color had all to do w. what was available to Fishman at the time. Trust me on this as I was involved in the early stages of their beta testing. I also live several miles from where these things are built. Even large companies can have a hard time finding what they would like and have to switch gears....
 
#5
i believe white was good for identifying the brand at a distance......i don't believe fishman came up with the bridge adjuster pu idea independently. i believe there was a company in asia who had a system that used both bridge adjusters as pickups. maybe someone else before them, who knows? seems that using just one element was a good idea on the part of fishman. pretty great pu, but not my cup of tea, the tonal adjustment thing was awkward for me too, and i also like the ability to remove a pickup from the bass, can't do that with the fishman
 
#6
Ya actually that identifying feature helped them. I believe the cable is from Belden [sp?] and they just didn't make cable that small in black or brown. Fishman also wanted to be able to disconnect the wire at the adjuster... couldn't find a small jack and plug that would work, hence their identifiable plug on the string after lengths.
That other pickup is made by Yamahiko in Japan. Eddie Gomez is their poster boy.......
 
#7
I would also rather the cable was black, or that it was possible to color it so (it repels the ink of everything I've tried to color it with). Other than that, I don't see the turning of the wheel as a design flaw. How else could they have done it? I actually kind of like being able to tweak the sound by turning the wheel.
 
#9
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I would also rather the cable was black, or that it was possible to color it so (it repels the ink of everything I've tried to color it with). Other than that, I don't see the turning of the wheel as a design flaw. How else could they have done it? I actually kind of like being able to tweak the sound by turning the wheel.
Click to expand...

The white wire bugs me, too, Chris, but I think that Krylon Fusion will cover it if it bugs you that much. I have painted a wire using this stuff, as well as other plastic and similar materials, quite successfully.

Fishman's most popular size is 1/4"x20, meaning a 1/4" bolt size with 20 threads per inch. If my concept and math is correct, one quarter turn to adjust the tone of the pickup would elevate or lower the bridge 1/80th of an inch.
 
#10
I never noticed or cared about the wire color.

"Design flaw" may be a little dramatic. Every approach has advantages/disadvantages;

Realist - prevents the bridge foot from contacting the table and leaves a little mark on the top. But brings more body sound in than the bridge wing pickups that it was designed to compete with.

Bridge Wing pickups - mute the bridge's vibrations somewhat, but don't require modificaiton to the bass, can be more easily removed and can be more articulate sounding, but less natural.

Mics of various varieties - Generally sound more accurate, but are feedback prone and can pick up and amplify bleed from other instruments and sounds.

Full Circle - For my money, the best, usable sonic pickup. Good middle ground between body and string (Realist and Bridge Wing). Mostly out of the way and doesn't damage or mute the bass in any way (not the pickup element anyway). Drawbacks - You have to have bridge adjusters. Not an option if you dont (duh), but I also felt like I couldn't make small adjustents to my string height without consideration for where that placed the element. I would say "worth it" for me 99.9% of the time. I hated the way the jack installed. I'm of the mind that something in the afterlengths does "mute" may not be the right word, but "alter the natural behavior of" my bass. I tried a few different mountings, but they all had their issues and some of them created shorts in the wire/RCA jack over time.

I would buy another one and forget about pickups for the next 10 years if the wire could be plugged/unplugged into the wheel instead of being permenantly mounted there. I probably wouldn't even mind the afterlengths mounting if it were that way because I could remove it when I wasn't using the pickup. The element in the wheel wouldn't bother me when not in use, if I could remove the wire and jack. It would also enable them to be replaced when they shorted or wore out without removing the pickup, which requires pulling the bridge, resetting the soundpost, etc. ...plus you guys who hate the white wire could probably heat shrink something over it if it disconnected that way.

Anyone have a voice at Fishman? Can't be compared to mics, but as pickups go, it's the best I've used, absent the baggage that comes with having it installed does for me.

As I've documented elsewhere, I've been using the Ehrlund since I gave up my Full Circle. After suffering through figuring out how to mount it, I've had it sound absolutely amazing in some situations. Problematic in others. I might still be in the learning curve with it. But, I love taking it off my bass after the gig and not having it on there when not in use for all the reasons stated above.
 
#13
TroyK said:
So the tone is the same at 12 - 3 - 6 - 9:00?

If so, that is better, assuming you're okay with the wire sticking out in whichever direction. I had mine at both 12:00 and 6:00 gracefully. Never tried it at 3:00 or 9:00.
Click to expand...

That's my understanding at this point.

I wouldn't mind the wire sticking out at any direction provided it was black!

I had the jack mounted to the tailpiece, but I was afraid that over time my quiver would stress out the wire. It's now back on the after-lengths. This seems like the safest place to avoid damage to the fragile little (white!) wire.
 
#15
I took a piece of black cloth bike handlebar tape I had, and cut a thin strip and covered the white cable with that. It lasted about 4 years before it disappeared. By that time I was so ugly that nobody cared about the little white bit anymore, they were just trying to shield themselves against the general image of an ugly white guy with his tongue out and his face scrunched up in the agonies of the ham handed. Now I just play in dark clubs, its written into the Rider.
 
#16
Don't people read the manuals anymore? ;-)

Link Removed

Tonal adjustments (figure 3)
Turn the wheel so the wire is perpendicular to the
leg and the pickup will have an open, resonant
response.
Turn the wheel 45 degrees so the wire faces one of
the corners and the tone will be somewhat drier and
more focused, with less output.


Which means it is only an 1/8 of a turn adjustment from wire in center, to wire in corner. This implies that electrically, all the centers are the same, all the corners are the same. That seems fine to me. (Again 1/8 turn in either direction gets the maximum tonal adjustment, not 1/4 turn)

INHO the white cable is good branding... like those mysterious white earbud headphones a few people were seen wearing back in late 2001...

The 'flaw' I see is the mounting of the p/u jack on the after lengths... so much for tuning the after lengths.
 
#17
there has to be a better term than "flaw". it's a good pu design. you know, i think some folks might like that white cable. either way the color will be a fashion statement. fishman was wise to drop the idea of using a detachable cable, because it would have been true flaw when it failed on the gig, or you left it at home, ect. as far as mounting the jack anywhere on the bass, well you don't get something for nothing with amplifying the bass. it's a compromise to the true sound of the acoustic bass, making it louder distorts (meaning alters) the original sound. some folks dig the direct sound, some folks dig the proximity effect of a mic. and everybody works like the devil to make it sound the same plugged in, but it is impossible.;) you want a true electric bass instrument sound, learn to kick a hammond;)
 

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