I would definitely get the Deep Impact for $400, Alex, flip it to some Muse FanBoy/Girl and then be able to afford TWO Future Impacts on my board ... Well, actually three, 'cause I already have one FI.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Future Impact - What's Up With This Pedal??
- Thread starter lotusland9663
- Start date
-
- Tags
- future impact
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
I think this is the heart of the issue. $70,000 is small revenue. When I see a kickstarter thing for a complicated pedal that raises $10,000, it is a joke.
If I were to start from scratch like Akai, and Mark Bass, this is the order of magnitude of the expense:
DSP algorithm development - $50,000 to $100,000
PCB hardware design and firmware development - $50,000 to $100,000
Software editor development and support - $5,000 - $20,000
Mechanical design, tooling, and other non-recurring engineering costs for housing - $10,000 to $20,000
First 200 units - $20,000 to $30,000
Total range - $135,000 to $270,000
One would need to sell these things for $700 each to break even.
This is what is scary about this product. It is really complicated to make, and the market is not big enough to support lots of products at high prices. I have nothing but respect for what the FI guys have pulled off! Having a DI replacement option is really nice.
I sold my deep impact to get a future impact. Yes the build quality is better on the older model but apart from that the FI destroys it in every way.
The decal isnt peeling on mine but i dont like the design so I plan to repaint my case red & create a custom decal for it.
The decal isnt peeling on mine but i dont like the design so I plan to repaint my case red & create a custom decal for it.
+1 to what gastric and rsmith601 said. It's pretty amazing that this pedal is what it is and doesn't cost twice what it does! 
Of course, it probably wouldn't sell at $700 a piece, but at $400...it's a little pricey but certainly not the most expensive pedal on the market, especially considering what it can do. Just my 2 cents. And FWIW, I bought it, love it and have absolutely no practical use for it at the moment. My main gig is a classic rock/funk cover band, currently on hiatus, not much use for the synth except for a couple filter-type sounds (Boogie On, Herbie Hancock) which I can cover with the filter pedals I also have on my board. It is a super fun pedal to play with that you can "make your own" with the editing capabilities. Happy synthing!! 
Of course, it probably wouldn't sell at $700 a piece, but at $400...it's a little pricey but certainly not the most expensive pedal on the market, especially considering what it can do. Just my 2 cents. And FWIW, I bought it, love it and have absolutely no practical use for it at the moment. My main gig is a classic rock/funk cover band, currently on hiatus, not much use for the synth except for a couple filter-type sounds (Boogie On, Herbie Hancock) which I can cover with the filter pedals I also have on my board. It is a super fun pedal to play with that you can "make your own" with the editing capabilities. Happy synthing!! 
I've eating up as much FI info I can find the past week or so. I almost bought a Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer for $275 on eBay and passed on it last minute. Something in my gut just said "no". I remember hearing about the FI as far back as when it was first announced, but had pretty much forgot about it until when recently looking for "the best synth bass" option. At this point, I feel I am either going to get the FI or a Korg MS-20 mini. Obviously, the FI is a compact pedal and easier to transport. But the MS20, with it's external source processing option, is the real deal as far as having an analog synth controlled by your bass.
Last year, I found locally a used TWA Great Divide 2.0 that I picked up ($300). It is a truly magnificent beast. But I bought it looking for a bass synthesizer, which it is not really. It sounds f***ing amazing, but as far as practical live uses for me, I tend to only use it as an octaver. Still the best sounding, best tracking octaver I've ever used (analog pedal and tracks better than digital octavers IMO), but I'm really not utilizing the full potential of it. I kinda want to sell of the GD to fund the FI, but I'd rather have them both!
I realize I may be bordering on rambling but it's nice to find a current active thread on the FI that is not all "Hey here is a pedal that is the successor to the DI and here is a bunch of regurgitated info and speculation" from up to 7 years ago..
One question I do have that I have not found an answer to yet: Would you consider this pedal to be "analog output, digitally controlled" like the OS or is it "all digital" like the Mark Bass Super Synth? The block diagrams on the Panda Midi page do show that before it goes to the VCO's, it hits a "pitch to voltage" convertor. When in real life in front of me, my ears can tell the difference between analog and digital effects, but on all the recorded demos, not so much.
Last year, I found locally a used TWA Great Divide 2.0 that I picked up ($300). It is a truly magnificent beast. But I bought it looking for a bass synthesizer, which it is not really. It sounds f***ing amazing, but as far as practical live uses for me, I tend to only use it as an octaver. Still the best sounding, best tracking octaver I've ever used (analog pedal and tracks better than digital octavers IMO), but I'm really not utilizing the full potential of it. I kinda want to sell of the GD to fund the FI, but I'd rather have them both!
I realize I may be bordering on rambling but it's nice to find a current active thread on the FI that is not all "Hey here is a pedal that is the successor to the DI and here is a bunch of regurgitated info and speculation" from up to 7 years ago..
One question I do have that I have not found an answer to yet: Would you consider this pedal to be "analog output, digitally controlled" like the OS or is it "all digital" like the Mark Bass Super Synth? The block diagrams on the Panda Midi page do show that before it goes to the VCO's, it hits a "pitch to voltage" convertor. When in real life in front of me, my ears can tell the difference between analog and digital effects, but on all the recorded demos, not so much.
I own the Octavius Squeezer, Korg G5, Markbass Super synth and the Future impact.
The Future impact is a way more versatile Markbass Synth pedal. It is definitely digital but still sounds phat. The best Synth pedal for analogue sounds is the Korg G5, something about it just sounds organic but the one that lives on my board and I gig with is the FI. It is so flexible and combined with midi makes gigging a breeze. I don't see the FI being replaced by anything in the future, it is the synth pedal I would recommend to everyone. Good call to skip on the Octavius and grab the FI, it is a far more versatile and easier pedal to use.
I haven't played a deep impact but I would think you are missing out on heaps. The future impact is an improved version.. midi, 99 presets, computer editing (which in itself is worth the price of the FI)
Oh, I've been really enjoying my FI. Just loading the sounds found on the Google Drive ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) has been a blast! I've used it on several gigs with great results....the FI delivers some NASTY synth bass sounds. I've been using the filter as well.
I got to use one for a few months courtesy of someone I know who left his FI with me to babysit (along with his two vintage basses) while his job took him to Eastern Europe. I think part of the motivation for leaving it in my care was him hoping I'd buy it off him. (If he were selling that gorgeous early '70s Ric he owns, we might have been able to reach a deal. But he, not being a fool, was keeping that, alas.)
So…the FI…
I found I became less interested in it the more I explored it. The engineering is appalling from a user experience perspective. I'm in IT, and a device with so many design and implementation shortcomings as the FI has would never have made it out the door if it were anything other than a musician's tool IMO. We musicians are a stoic and forgiving bunch it seems.
As far as the FI goes, it's definitely an interesting pedal. But to me it's more a niche product. I could see maybe using some settings for parts of some songs. Or writing a song around some of its sounds and features. But that's about it. Maybe it's just waiting for its "Jaco" to come along and point the way for the rest of us poor mortals who don't completely grok it.
When it comes to bass synthesis I still keep thinking the Roland GR-55/GK-3B combination is about the only workable and genuinely useful solution (so far) for guitar or electric bass driven synth use. That or just skip the note to midi conversion hassles and get a small Moog keyboard like the Sub 37, and be done with it.
It's true that either going with Roland or Moog will tip the scales a smidgen north of a grand. But that's not much of premium to pay over the roughly $400-list for the FI, and the $800 asking price for Deep Impact respectively.
Dunno. The FI is certainly a cool pedal. But I think it needs a lot more work to get beyond where it is now. And I don't get the feeling the company has the resources to do that as things stand. Especially when already working synth solutions, which are backed by major companies with far deeper pockets, are available for a small premium over the FI's price tag.
I wish FI well. But it is what it is - and that's niche IMO. At least in its present incarnation.
So…the FI…
I found I became less interested in it the more I explored it. The engineering is appalling from a user experience perspective. I'm in IT, and a device with so many design and implementation shortcomings as the FI has would never have made it out the door if it were anything other than a musician's tool IMO. We musicians are a stoic and forgiving bunch it seems.
As far as the FI goes, it's definitely an interesting pedal. But to me it's more a niche product. I could see maybe using some settings for parts of some songs. Or writing a song around some of its sounds and features. But that's about it. Maybe it's just waiting for its "Jaco" to come along and point the way for the rest of us poor mortals who don't completely grok it.
When it comes to bass synthesis I still keep thinking the Roland GR-55/GK-3B combination is about the only workable and genuinely useful solution (so far) for guitar or electric bass driven synth use. That or just skip the note to midi conversion hassles and get a small Moog keyboard like the Sub 37, and be done with it.
It's true that either going with Roland or Moog will tip the scales a smidgen north of a grand. But that's not much of premium to pay over the roughly $400-list for the FI, and the $800 asking price for Deep Impact respectively.
Dunno. The FI is certainly a cool pedal. But I think it needs a lot more work to get beyond where it is now. And I don't get the feeling the company has the resources to do that as things stand. Especially when already working synth solutions, which are backed by major companies with far deeper pockets, are available for a small premium over the FI's price tag.
I wish FI well. But it is what it is - and that's niche IMO. At least in its present incarnation.
Last edited:
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
- 18,158
- 69,338
- Disclosures
- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
Just curious why you are saying the FI is $600. It's 399 Euro including VAT; my net price when I ordered in December was about $435 US, that's minus VAT but + shipping + duties and fees. If the majority of your opinion is based on price and bang for the buck, that seems like a not-insignificant detail.
I looked at the price on EBay just before I posted and saw one FI which was going for $550. Added in the $25 quote for shipping and rounded. The Deep Impact pedals were all priced at $800. I also just went over to the pandaMIDI website and see that the $399€ is stated as a special introductory price to be completely fair about it.
I'm not basing my opinion solely on bang for the buck. I'm basing it on the fact my experiences with the thing led me to feel it was a flawed product with some interesting features and some good promises that have yet to be realized. In a nutshell, I wasn't too pleased with the way it worked or the hoops it put you through if you wanted to go beyond the stock patches (which I didn't find all that impressive in most cases) - which when speaking about synthesizers is what it's all about: patch/program-ability and the being able to tweak and customize those patches.
I know I may draw a little fire from some folks if they read too much into my opinion, but I think the device is seriously flawed and underdeveloped in it's current incarnation. It is, quite frankly, not much of a synth solution. The design and implementation seems fairly primitive by today's standards. It seems like something from out of the early '90s rather than the last five years. Numeric displays? Bizarre midi implementation? It just seems a giant step backwards to me. And I think many people who are looking and thinking in terms of modern control interfaces - or in expectation of how a synth operates and what it brings to the table - are going to be disappointed with this pedal. I know I was after hearing how incredible the thing was supposed to be.
Believe me, I wanted to like it. And I put in quite a few hours with it. But at the end of the day, it just seemed backwards and awkward. And certainly a lot more trouble than I thought it was worth.
But as I said earlier and repeatedly, this is all just my opinion. People really should try it for themselves and see what they think. For myself, I'm glad I got to really try one out before I bought one - which I had thought about doing when it first arrived. Because I know I would have been very disappointed with it if I had bought it not knowing what I discovered after about nine weeks of working with it.
Like I said, this is just my own opinion. Other people may have had a better experience with the thing. As it's been said so many times: YMMV.
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
- 18,158
- 69,338
- Disclosures
- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
I don't think that wording is meaningful. It's been the same price in the 9 months that it has been available. No idea what the future holds.
I understand that, but it did seem to be a not-insignificant part of your argument, that for just a little bit more you could buy full synth products. I've been accused of being a fanboy for this product before, and you're obviously entitled to your opinion, so I'm not really interested in getting into the weeds of the rest of your comments. But I just wanted to correct that one bit of information, because there is a big difference in assessing the value of a product when your estimate is almost 40% too high.
Fair enough. I'll edit my OP and say $400 if you think that would be beneficial to the thread. I don't have an agenda here. I'm just offering my own tuppence. Which is worth exactly that much.
(Ok it's done.)
PS. Nothing wrong with being a fan of a product if it works for you. You ought to hear me go on and on about the Keeley Bassist, or the Iron Ether Nimbus Reverb, or Broughton Audio, or Gibson Rippers…or…
Last edited:
If all you do is buy the FI, audition the user patches we've all shared, and load your favorite 99 onto your personal pedal, assuming you're interested in mono bass synth lines (not brass/woodwind/piano sounds) then this thing will be nearly everything your average bass synth player wants. In a small, fairly easy to comprehend package.
I never use my Roland GR-55 except to demo to friends. Guitarists love the modeled guitar/banjo/tunings. But the PCM synth engines are really challenging to play and trigger reliably, certainly much harder than the FI. And of course its much more expensive. Obviously it's a much better designed piece of hardware, but you're comparing Roland to a small 2 person startup. I'll likely sell my GR-55 soon as I never use it.
Note that some of your critiques are totally valid. USB and a better designed editor with a linear layout for workflow and more standard synth controls would greatly improve usability and intuitiveness. For the hardware, I think Panda kind of pigeonholed themselves keeping to the AKAI hardware UI instead of implementing something new. But that was their specific goal, give us a newer Deep Impact, which is why it's called Future Impact. But it couldn't been way better if it had a small LCD, USB, etc.
Panda is a 2 person startup. Be happy there's even an FI to critique and enjoy what it CAN do.
I never use my Roland GR-55 except to demo to friends. Guitarists love the modeled guitar/banjo/tunings. But the PCM synth engines are really challenging to play and trigger reliably, certainly much harder than the FI. And of course its much more expensive. Obviously it's a much better designed piece of hardware, but you're comparing Roland to a small 2 person startup. I'll likely sell my GR-55 soon as I never use it.
Note that some of your critiques are totally valid. USB and a better designed editor with a linear layout for workflow and more standard synth controls would greatly improve usability and intuitiveness. For the hardware, I think Panda kind of pigeonholed themselves keeping to the AKAI hardware UI instead of implementing something new. But that was their specific goal, give us a newer Deep Impact, which is why it's called Future Impact.
But it couldn't been way better if it had a small LCD, USB, etc. Panda is a 2 person startup. Be happy there's even an FI to critique and enjoy what it CAN do.
If all you do is buy the FI, audition the user patches we've all shared, and load your favorite 99 onto your personal pedal, assuming you're interested in mono bass synth lines (not brass/woodwind/piano sounds) then this thing will be nearly everything your average bass synth player wants. In a small, fairly easy to comprehend package.
I never use my Roland GR-55 except to demo to friends. Guitarists love the modeled guitar/banjo/tunings. But the PCM synth engines are really challenging to play and trigger reliably, certainly much harder than the FI. And of course its much more expensive. Obviously it's a much better designed piece of hardware, but you're comparing Roland to a small 2 person startup. I'll likely sell my GR-55 soon as I never use it.
Note that some of your critiques are totally valid. USB and a better designed editor with a linear layout for workflow and more standard synth controls would greatly improve usability and intuitiveness. For the hardware, I think Panda kind of pigeonholed themselves keeping to the AKAI hardware UI instead of implementing something new. But that was their specific goal, give us a newer Deep Impact, which is why it's called Future Impact.
Panda is a 2 person startup. Be happy there's even an FI to critique and enjoy what it CAN do.
I only critique the companies and products I respect. If I've found fault with the Future Impact pedal, it's only because it has so much promise and could be capable of being so much more. I'm like that with Gibson and Fender. You'll be hard pressed to find somebody who respects the those companies for their products more than I do. By the same token, you won't find a tougher critic when I think they're resting on their laurels, blowing smoke out their butts, or releasing an inferior product. But that's only because I want them to succeed and be successful.
If I thought the FI was a piece of junk, or a technological dinosaur sinking in a tar pit of obsolescence, I wouldn't have even bothered to post.
And truth is, at the end of the day, all that gets remembered is whether or not you did what you said you would, and made good on your promises (or the expectations you raised). Because you either did - or you didn't. I'm not saying we have to SOBs about it. But there's far too much excuse making on behalf of businesses in this world as it is without me adding to it. Asking for forgiveness is not a sustainable product strategy - or a smart business model. The only company in the world that can treat its customers badly and break it promises - and still always be forgiven - is Apple.
I think its basically exactly what was promised: A current production of the Deep Impact.
Which they improved on. Immensely.
And at half the price.
Which they improved on. Immensely.
And at half the price.
I hear you 40Hz, but ... There are a LOT more companies than just Apple that get away with murder.
Not defending Apple here – while the honeymoon period is a decades-old memory, and the relationship is definitely rocky at best, alas I'm not looking for a divorce, at least not yet.
FI?
I've been lazy, I still need to dig into the patches other users have created.
Not defending Apple here – while the honeymoon period is a decades-old memory, and the relationship is definitely rocky at best, alas I'm not looking for a divorce, at least not yet.
FI?
I've been lazy, I still need to dig into the patches other users have created.
