Double Bass Gary Karr article on Orchestra bass sections

[LouisF]

This article (from 2014 I think) came up on a recent feed:

Too few conductors understand their double bass section

 

[Don Hergert]

Very interesting article. I'm surprised to hear how under-appreciated DB orchestral players (and their sonic products) are.

It almost reminds me of stereotypical bluegrass band DB players. 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5, 1-4-5,...

It sounds to me like for all of us who play it, it's time for the double bass to come out of the closet.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

And we wonder why classical music is dying

My 2¢

 

[Sean Riddle]

This is such a great article. It just goes to show that playing harder or big instruments (even though I love big basses) isn't always the right answer. Also a lot of jazz players should read this. There's a lot they can learn about pizzicato from this. I think I'm due for another read of it. Thanks Louis!

 

[unbrokenchain]

"On one occasion we were playing a Mozart chamber work, and Lewis asked me to play spiccato, but then kept showing me the palm of his hand, ostensibly to urge me to play softer and lighter. I became so irritated that, like those musicians in Spain, I started faking my bow movements without actually touching the strings. When I did so, sure enough Maestro Lewis gave me the thumbs up!"

 

[Andy Mopley]

Ok time to come clean.. ;-) Has anyone else ever "faked" for one (valid) reason or another?

 

[Wasnex]

My impression was the bass playing tradition in the city where I was born and grew up was to attack the instrument and extract as much volume as possible. This was reflected in the way the instruments were set up. As I traveled the world, I noticed most of the string basses I came across were set up with relatively high action consistent with this philosophy. But there seems to be a few regions where a different approach flourishes.

During my first assignment as a military bandsman in the early 90s, I took lessons from Tom Derthick, who was the Principal of the Sacramento Symphony (now Principal of the Sacramento Phil). I got the impression the philosophy was very different in Tom's section. Tom played a 7/8 flat back, and it was setup to play very easily and had a sweet singing tone. The lessons focused largely on kinesthetics and musicality, and less on the technical matters that all of my previous instructors had focused on. I embraced Toms philosophy and I feel it helped me become a much better player. Of course I played amplified almost exclusively in concert bands and big bands, so there was no need for me to maximize my acoustic power. I could focus on playing sweetly, and let the amp do the heavy lifting.

Tom was also quite aware of the projection qualities of his basses. If I remember correctly, he did not feel his big bass was exceptional up close, but the sound came more into focus as distance increased. In contrast, I believe his backup bass was loud up close, but did not project as well.

Given how many times Mr Karr cites conductors giving the bass section the hand, perhaps it would be beneficial for more bass players/sections to adopt an approach that is more focused on tone and musicality, and less focused on producing maximum volume. It easier to play with sensitivity and finesse if you don't have a mandate to beat the daylights out of your bass.

 

[Andy Mopley]

"Given how many times Mr Karr cites conductors giving the bass section the hand, perhaps it would be beneficial for more bass players/sections to adopt an approach that is more focused on tone and musicality, and less focused on producing maximum volume." - in theory, yes...but when you are next to a brass section, in an orchestra setting, it does come down to volume, IMHO..

 

[Wasnex]

"Given how many times Mr Karr cites conductors giving the bass section the hand, perhaps it would be beneficial for more bass players/sections to adopt an approach that is more focused on tone and musicality, and less focused on producing maximum volume." - in theory, yes...but when you are next to a brass section, in an orchestra setting, it does come down to volume, IMHO..

In my experience, many conductors love to give trumpets and trombones the hand too, but never clarinets .

I am not saying volume is not important, but the various facets of playing must be prioritized and balanced. If too much emphasis is placed on playing loud, then other facets of playing suffer. If you sound bad, it doesn't matter how quietly you play, you get the hand.

From what I remember about playing in symphonies, in much of the repertoire you're not actually playing in competition with the brass. I know from years of experience that there is no way an acoustic string bass section will ever rival even a modest brass section for volume. It's sort of pointless to worry about trying to match their power, because it is not even close.

IMHO on the matter of being an acoustically sound instrument, the string bass is basically a travesty. The one advantage it has, is low frequencies tend to carry better than high frequencies. So the further you are from the orchestra, the better you are likely to hear the bass section.

My perception is you really need a minimum of about 8 string basses to get a really good section sound. Course that's a lot of mouths to feed, so many modern orchestras tend to make due with about 6. The San Francisco Symphony lists 9 .

 

[neilG]

My perception is you really need a minimum of about 8 string basses to get a really good section sound.

With the right combination of six players, our symphony bass section sounds great. It really depends on the abilities of the players, size of the hall, placement on stage, etc.

 

[Andy Mopley]

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=e...hUKEwjSm4udu5HmAhXXV30KHT16B8EQoiowIXoECA4QBg

6 alright.. ;-) and yes, you all sound great! - but who played the HAMMER?? ))

 

[Wasnex]

With the right combination of six players, our symphony bass section sounds great. It really depends on the abilities of the players, size of the hall, placement on stage, etc.

Could be worse, I just checked the list of musicians for my hometown orchestra and only four string bass players are listed. That's probably the minimum acceptable number.

As a kid, I think I remember seeing concerts with about eight bassists on stage, but they were not all listed in the program. I guess some were tenured orchestra members and others were hired on a service to service basis.

 

[notabene]

Some composers understand/understood bass better than others. This affects balance greatly. Sometimes, the ear should determine what the composer wished, rather than what he/she wrote. Just sayin'.

 

[Neil Pye]

In the defence of conductors, they are in a much better place to hear and asses the balance of the orchestra than the bass section! I recently sat in the auditorium in a rehearsal for our recent Mahler 2, and was surprised how well the 5 (plus me makes 6) basses came through. Every orchestral player has a story about faking a ppp passage and getting the thumbs up. Take them with a pinch of salt. Mr Karr is a wonderful, miraculous musician and inspiring teacher, but is he a better judge of orchestral tone and balance than any of the great orchestral players, or conductors??