Gary Willis method of memorizing?

[mambo4]

Personally I avoid Arabic numbers for writing about harmony, especially in TB posts. I've seen too much confusion and ambiguity, I'm convinced it's a poor communication method.

For several years I have adhered to this convention:
Arabic numbers for describing tones that relate to a root or tonic (intervals, scale tones, or chord tones)
Roman numerals for chords related to a key center.

I've seen many beginners get their wires crossed.

Of course verbally and in my head it's "two, five, one..."

 

[IamGroot]

If you are reading big band charts or Real Books and get lost, if you have developed your ear for patterns, you can go on autopilot while you find your place.

In the good old days, I would order my drink and complimentary dinner on autopilot.

 

[Cutter8]

It is well worth taking the time to chart out songs one way or another either using the roman numerals method, Nashville Notation or other methods. I only started doing this around three months ago and it has really helped me hear chord progressions and movements between chords much better plus I can transpose songs in different keys on-the-fly much better than I used to. Some songs I don't bother with but in just about every instance that I have there has been an "ah-ha!" moment where I suddenly realise other songs that have the same progression but in a different key.

I know it’s something I should do, and can understand how valuable it would be, it’s just way beyond what I can get my head around. I’ve been a “musician” for decades, performed across the U.S. and in a dozen other countries in my teens, got into fine arts school and started college as classical voice major. I play a number of instruments well, and if you hand me a new instrument and give me a few days, I can play most things that I hear or see someone play. But, I don’t understand music on paper at all in any format! It was a bit uncomfortable writing that last sentence. It makes me feel self conscious and I’m a little embarrassed admitting it, but I’d be more embarrassed to pretend that I’m less musically ignorant than I really am. The truth is that I don’t read music in any form or understand even basic music theory. I sincerely hope I manage to change that.

 

[IamGroot]

I know it’s something I should do, and can understand how valuable it would be, it’s just way beyond what I can get my head around. I’ve been a “musician” for decades, performed across the U.S. and in a dozen other countries in my teens, got into fine arts school and started college as classical voice major. I play a number of instruments well, and if you hand me a new instrument and give me a few days, I can play most things that I hear or see someone play. But, I don’t understand music on paper at all in any format! It was a bit uncomfortable writing that last sentence. It makes me feel self conscious and I’m a little embarrassed admitting it, but I’d be more embarrassed to pretend that I’m less musically ignorant than I really am. The truth is that I don’t read music in any form or understand even basic music theory. I sincerely hope I manage to change that.

Music theory is a substitution for a good ear which you obviously have.

Dave Brubeck couldn't read sheet music. The conservatory foundation out about that too late. They let him graduate on the condition he wouldn't teach music.

You sound like a talented person. How did you get into music.

 

[Goat of Ball St]

I'm actually really curious about how Willis would apply it to non diatonic harmony or anything outside of major/ relative minor harmony, also it seems like Arabic numerals could get REALLY confusing. I'm only somewhat familiar with Nashville and it made sense for the context it would be used but I'm not sure how Willis' method is helpful personally when you could just spend the time to be explicit.

 

[Malcolm35]

Take fake chord for example. It just gives the bare bones of the song and leaves the rest up to us. Gary's method is doing that also. Give the bare bone chord progression and leave how that is to be played up to the person playing the song.

From what I can tell he was laying out a short hand method that made it easy to scribble on a piece of paper and be handed to the band members.

 

[selowitch]

This thread is helpful. Thanks!

 

[cnltb]

Its a shorthand for remembering Jazz chord progressions.
It is a "tip" from Gary , presented in some of his books.

Instead of memorizing chord names like Dm7 - G7 - C ,
you assign each chord a number based on its relationship to the key center (C major in this case)
and Dm7 - G7 - C thus becomes 2-5-1.

when the key center changes, you note the interval by which it does so in parenthesis.
Ebmin7 - Ab7 - Dbmaj7 - G7 - C thus becomes 2-5-1(TT)-5-1. where (TT) = tritone

Its almost exactly the basic Nashville number system,
with and added method to track key center changes.

The assumption is that the musician knows major scale harmony.

Thanks!
Looks much like the way I do it. I use roman numerals.

 

[bbh]

I memorize the sounds and my fingers just go to the right places. I do simple charting for tracks. I usually write out the chord name i.e. C7.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Has anyone here adapted Gary Willis method of memorizing songs that's in his book "Fingerboard Harmony"? It seems interesting, and I'd like to get a solid understanding of it so I can memorize more jazz standards.

I'm curious how you would apply it to a standard like Autumn Leaves that's in a minor key.

So if the changes are

Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7 Ebmaj7
Am7b5 D7 Gm (x2)
Am7b5 D7 Gm
Cm7 F7 Bbmaj7 Ebmaj7
Am7b5 D7 Gm7 Gb7 Fm7 E7
Am7b5 D7 Gm

1. Do you think of the start as being in major, so it's written like
2 5 1 4
7 3 6
or
2 5 1 4 (TT)
2 5 1

or do you think of it in minor, so it becomes
4 7 3 6
2 5 1

2. How do you write out minor II V I's with as little unnecessary information as possible so you don't confuse it with a major II V I?

3. How do you write out the tritone substitutions?

I always assume Major unless it's minor in which case I'll write a lower case m. In others words I only denote minor chords

 

[Mushroo]

From what I can tell he was laying out a short hand method that made it easy to scribble on a piece of paper and be handed to the band members.

I doubt it. This system doesn't communicate enough information for anyone to learn a song from scratch that they've never played before. I think this is just a mnemonic to help Willis remember songs that he already knows. When teaching a song to other people, Willis probably either wrote a "normal" chart (is my guess) or taught them the song by ear.

 

[SteveCS]

Music theory is a substitution for a good ear...

...

Maybe in some cases, but as a universal statement of fact that is total nonsense.
YMMV.

 

[IamGroot]

Maybe in some cases, but as a universal statement of fact that is total nonsense.
YMMV.

It's a statement I first heard from a university music instructor and pro jazz player 20 years ago when he taught jazz theory.

Theory is just guidance and when you can play unassisted, forget the rules.

 

[SteveCS]

It's a statement I first heard from a university music instructor and pro jazz player 20 years ago when he taught jazz theory.

Theory is just guidance and when you can play unassisted, forget the rules.

Context is everything...

 

[IamGroot]

Context is everything...

Yes, context is everything.

Where I studied, they had both Classical and Jazz studies and the conservatory-trained classicists did not deign to talk to the jazz and music production people.

I spent time in both sections.

 

[SteveCS]

Yes, context is everything.

Where I studied, they had both Classical and Jazz studies and the conservatory-trained classicists did not deign to talk to the jazz and music production people.

I spent time in both sections.

A rather outdated attitude, really. My daighter is prepping for conservatoire audtions ('cello) in 2021, but also plays double bass in a jazz band. She hasn't complained (yet) of her orchestral colleagues looking down their noses at her. Then again, she keeps her trap shut and lets her music do the talking!

 

[IamGroot]

Well good for her.

 

[BAG]

I always assume Major unless it's minor in which case I'll write a lower case m. In others words I only denote minor chords

This is similar to what I do however i will add a small 6 or 7 if needed.

This system doesn't communicate enough information for anyone to learn a song from scratch that they've never played before.

Maybe not to learn a song as per the original recording, but for someone who knows enough basic theory it can be enough information to play it through and improvise much in the same way that saying "This song is one, four, two, five in A" is enough information to play along with other musicians.

Willis' method is probably a little too shorthand for me which is why I either use the roman numeral method or the arabic numbers with a little "m" for minor and the occasional 7th or 6th designation for that extra bit of info.