Mesa Subway WD800 and 2-1x15 subway cabs will take care of the needs of most bass players. I’d have to say it was the rig of the decade.
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Get me gig ready - amp thoughts?
- Thread starter hughesp
- Start date
As far as setup, I'd look at a power amp and a pair of 2x10's. It sounds like you will be playing a variety of genres and venues, do this will give you flexibility of what to bring and what not to. Jazz gigs, maybe just the 210. Louder gigs, both 210's stacked vertically.
I run that setup and am pretty happy. Others can chime n on brands and all that. I just use a Beringer inuke100 and a pair of Hartke XL 210s. All used, not fancy, but all together cost me under $500.
It's also worth noting that my bands go into the PA alot, so often I just bring my board and go ampless. Not sure if you wanna fall into the rabbit hole of D.I. pedals and preamps just yet.
I run that setup and am pretty happy. Others can chime n on brands and all that. I just use a Beringer inuke100 and a pair of Hartke XL 210s. All used, not fancy, but all together cost me under $500.
It's also worth noting that my bands go into the PA alot, so often I just bring my board and go ampless. Not sure if you wanna fall into the rabbit hole of D.I. pedals and preamps just yet.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
The best bass players also play guitar … I know for me I can look at the guitarists left and know what chord he is playing.
As per the amp … I like bass heads and separate speaker cabs. For the heads I like Ampeg and Hartke, For the speaker cabs a pair of 1x15 cabs or a pair of 2x10 cabs will work nicely. Then you can use one cab for a small gig and 2 for a larger gig.
And for the bass you might consider a 5 string, they come in handy for country, Gospel, Blues, Jazz, Metal, and even Classic Rock.
Don't sleep on Aguilar. Both the TH500 & TH700 are incredible. The one thing that trips people up with the Tone Hammer is the Master and Gain controls. They aren't set up like a traditional master and gain and not knowing how to use them is the cause for some not liking/understanding the amp. I was one of those. Used a TH500 a bunch as a backline for rehearsals and was completely unimpressed. After reading through the Tone Hammer thread and gaining an understanding of this amp it completely unlocked everything you hear owners rave about.
I've owned Mesa, Mark Basss and Genzler(all great amps) and for me my TH700 stands clearly above them all. Extremely versatile on the tone spectrum and sits in and cuts through the mix unlike any other solid state amp I've used. I play a mix of blues, soul, & rock n roll and occasionally folk/americana. Cabinet wise it sounds great with everything I've played it through. My main cab is a the Bergantino NV212. Sealed cab so pairs really well with the TH for a warm vintage tone.
TH700 can be picked up for $800 and Jim is closing out the NV212'a right now. Those can be had for $878 while they last.
I've also paired it with the Ampeg 810, Aguilar DB410, Genz Benz Focus LT410, and Mark Bass NY115. Plays well with all of them. Plenty of amp for whatever size gig you'd need. Just pair with whatever size cab you need for the job.
The TH was my holy grail and I almost passed it up. You'll know what yours is once you hear it.
I've owned Mesa, Mark Basss and Genzler(all great amps) and for me my TH700 stands clearly above them all. Extremely versatile on the tone spectrum and sits in and cuts through the mix unlike any other solid state amp I've used. I play a mix of blues, soul, & rock n roll and occasionally folk/americana. Cabinet wise it sounds great with everything I've played it through. My main cab is a the Bergantino NV212. Sealed cab so pairs really well with the TH for a warm vintage tone.
TH700 can be picked up for $800 and Jim is closing out the NV212'a right now. Those can be had for $878 while they last.
I've also paired it with the Ampeg 810, Aguilar DB410, Genz Benz Focus LT410, and Mark Bass NY115. Plays well with all of them. Plenty of amp for whatever size gig you'd need. Just pair with whatever size cab you need for the job.
The TH was my holy grail and I almost passed it up. You'll know what yours is once you hear it.
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If you want bass advice ask the guys you have played with, the ones who you liked playing with and ask what they do.
IMO there are several rules of thumb.
Watts are cheap. If you're thinking of playing larger or louder gigs start looking at 500 watts. I use a 700 watt amp for all my gigs, even the coffee houses. It has 2 volume controls! You can always turn down, but you can't always get a good sound if you try to run the amp flat out.
More drivers gives you more volume and a better tone. It's a physical thing, you are simply moving more air.
It is easier to upgrade separates than combos. And when you start out you always change you views and need to upgrade after awhile.
Check out the Tech 21 V-500 and the Traynor (can't remember model BCH500?). Both 500 watts both $500 new, less used, light weight.
...oh, yeah, one more thing. Make sure the amp has an XLR direct out, with at least the option of it being pre-EQ. A good line out to the PA is more useful than 500 extra Watts for carrying big rooms.
Thanks everyone for the input. Seems most are really on the same page...
I’m going to rent a few different setups over the next couple of weeks for some rehearsals. There’s a Traynor SB500H going for a great price locally, which might be the head to go with - at least to get started. There’s also a lot of used cabs for sale right now at my local shops - gk, ampeg, Mesa, fender, Traynor...
I need to try stuff in person, but it would seem that if I like the Traynor stuff, it might be the easiest to go with. There’s lots of used cabs around, and if I buy one, I have the option of renting a 2nd for really cheap anytime I need the extra volume.
No one locally carries any Aguilar stuff, so they are probably out for the immediate time being...
I’m going to rent a few different setups over the next couple of weeks for some rehearsals. There’s a Traynor SB500H going for a great price locally, which might be the head to go with - at least to get started. There’s also a lot of used cabs for sale right now at my local shops - gk, ampeg, Mesa, fender, Traynor...
I need to try stuff in person, but it would seem that if I like the Traynor stuff, it might be the easiest to go with. There’s lots of used cabs around, and if I buy one, I have the option of renting a 2nd for really cheap anytime I need the extra volume.
No one locally carries any Aguilar stuff, so they are probably out for the immediate time being...
Surprised no one has mentioned the Orange Terror Bass yet. That amp is simply amazing.
Another vote for a Mesa Subway rig. My choice is a D800+ and 2 112s, but you can’t go wrong with any of their stuff. These are available used pretty frequently.
I made a similar move from guitar to bass about 10 years ago...
First a couple of observations. Technology is more of a thing in the bass world. In the guitar world the amps are not terribly different than they were 50 years ago. While you can buy bass amps in 50 year old designs, the newest heads have much higher power and much wider tonal variability. The speaker cabs are more efficient, lighter weight, and have wider frequency response. Bass heads tend to bring less color to the party than guitar amps so if you buy the head well, you may not need to upgrade it for sometime. Speakers OTOH are at least as variable or more so than guitar speakers... So there you may change as you’ve experienced more. I’d go into the journey expecting to live with a head for a longer time and to change speakers as you have more experience.
As a rule of thumb, I think you’ll want about 10X the power of the lead guitar player and roughly the same or more speaker area. Remember that most class D or solid state heads give you about 1/2 their rated power at 8 ohms, full at 4 (or lower for the ones that go lower). So... generally, you’re going to want a 500 watt or higher head and either 2 12’s or 410’s.
For me, a good class D head makes the most sense. They are light weight and high power with most giving you wide options for tone. The most recent ones hit very hard and sound great. Genzler, Mesa, Quilter, Bergantino, Aguilar are companies that make good ones that you could live with a long time and are relatively easy to find. 800 watts is pretty common. I would begin this this list of companies. Some folk love the Fender Rumble amps which will be a lower price point. Ditto the Peavey amps. I’d choose one of the other brands before these two. And there are others that are less common like Trickfish, Darkglass, DNA, etc. that are quite good. Vanilla or chocolate?
Speakers are trickier. I agree with the folk recommending modular speakers. 2 112’s or 2 210’s gives you options. Those same companies that make Good heads make good choices as do a number of smaller companies. Also, there are tons of previous generation bass cabs available for low prices that are heavier and bulkier than the current generation cabs. Some sounds quite good. They will be low cost but may be difficult to sell later on when you’re ready to move up.
Lots of folk recommend what they play. Obviously we like what we spent money on. I find the Genzler gear to be very high quality. The heads are transparent, versatile, and authoritative. Their BA cabs are killer... great dispersion, deep throw, sound great, relatively low weight. For a more traditional design, I’d look at the Mesa or Bergantino cabs. Smaller companies that I like a lot are Audiokinesis, Barefaced, and Greenboy.
Finally... bass is fun!
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There's a lot of good information in this thread (and agreed about the Terror bass, a friend of mine has that with an Orange 2x12 cab that's the size of my Markbass CMD121P and it kills, it's crazy).
I'm going to be the guy that everyone disagrees with, but I'd say don't discount the amp modelling and powered speaker route, especially as you are also a guitarist; today's modern ampless rig could serve for both guitar and bass if you wanted. This is a good option if:
Common arguments include the learning curve and the complexity. If you're smart, these won't apply to you. Other arguments include the quality of the rig emulation, but amp modelers are being used by professionals on tours and the technology will only improve with time. The real disadvantage here may be cost (mainly if you don't already own a powered speaker solution), depending on what your alternatives are.
I wanted to touch on this choice because of your situation and experience; if you're really planning on professionally playing everything between pop, rock, motown, jazz, show tunes, etc, the versatility an amp and effects modeler will give you couldn't be easily matched by a single amp solution. Just another option to consider in your hunt. Good luck!
I'm going to be the guy that everyone disagrees with, but I'd say don't discount the amp modelling and powered speaker route, especially as you are also a guitarist; today's modern ampless rig could serve for both guitar and bass if you wanted. This is a good option if:
- you anticipate venues with backlines and monitors, or
- you routinely run a larger band PA for your gigs, or
- you already own a personal powered speaker
Common arguments include the learning curve and the complexity. If you're smart, these won't apply to you. Other arguments include the quality of the rig emulation, but amp modelers are being used by professionals on tours and the technology will only improve with time. The real disadvantage here may be cost (mainly if you don't already own a powered speaker solution), depending on what your alternatives are.
I wanted to touch on this choice because of your situation and experience; if you're really planning on professionally playing everything between pop, rock, motown, jazz, show tunes, etc, the versatility an amp and effects modeler will give you couldn't be easily matched by a single amp solution. Just another option to consider in your hunt. Good luck!
Traynor SB500 is a whopping good head for the money. I like those, and I like the old CarvinBX (long out of production, sadly) and I especially like the recent HARTKE Class D offerings. Their newest 500WRMS and 800WRMS "LX" models are a lot of bang for the buck, and should bump a lot of last year's TX600s to the used market 'for a song'. The Hartke TX600 is actually only 400WRMS, but it has a great 'old-school-Fender-tone-stack' tone to it, and basically for me it replaces my old beloved MESA 400+ in a package that is 1/6th the size and about 1/10th the weight. Yes, it can break windows! 
I also really like the MESA Class D amps - but they are unobtanium priced up here and I never see them on the local used market...
I also really like the MESA Class D amps - but they are unobtanium priced up here and I never see them on the local used market...
Well, I have a couple of suggestions.
For buying used cabs, look at the Eden cabs, they've been around forever, they are usually available used, and they are very hard to destroy. HOWEVER, unless you get a killer deal on the D112XLT or a D112XST buy the Eden EX112. Eden is no longer making them and price is under $300 (I paid $269 for mine). Yes the D series sounds better, but not $600 better...not by a long shot.
I bought one for a small brew pub that originally made me play through their Peavey 112 combo. Didn't like the sound of it and I ended up ordering one of the Eden EX112-4 cabs because a friend of mine in the UK just ranted and raved about them. They have a very small foot print because they have a whizzer cone (speaker cone within a cone) instead of a separate horn for the high-mids and highs. I was apprehensive about it right until I receive mine. I gigged with it the very next night and two-days later ordered a second one.
These Eden EX112's really have a nice sound. I ran one cab with a class D Eden TN-226 head (225-watts@ 4 ohms) for one but since I got them in 4 ohm (thinking I would only ever have one) I have to use my big amp with them to run both at (one into each side of my dual-powerblock amp). Here's what I was using for small venues like that brewpub:
For medium-sized gigs, I used both of them turned on their side so the amp doesn't overhang too much. I have to use my big amp running one 4 ohm cab from each side. They'll handle 300-watts each and that amp puts out 400-watts per channel, but I don't play them anywhere near the max the cabs can handle. I will often put them on top of a milk crate to get them up off the floor a little bit:
For large venues, outdoor venues, and outdoor festivals, I'll use my DNS-410 by DNA.
I'm actually selling both of my Eden EX112's now though. Price is $200 plus actual shipping charge. Despite the fact that they sound really good, the sound characteristics of my DNS cab are better. Since I'm now a DNA Endorser, I decided to get their DNS-210 cab to use at small and medium venues instead of using one or two of the EX112's.
I've been using it at rehearsals for about a month and a half and gigged with it right before Christmas. It does indeed have the sound characteristics as my 410 but in a smaller package. It's also much louder than I expected (max SPL=134db). It will handle 700-watts and my amp puts out 800 watts bridged. I can take it into small venues without scaring the owner of the place and I can use it at medium-sized venues easily. Yes it weighs more than one of the EX112's, but it's not as heavy as two of them.
I still use my DNS-410 for large venues, outdoor venues, and outdoor festivals. If you have FOH reinforcement, the DNS-210 is all you need for the stage. So now I just use either the DNS-210 or the DNS-410 and have my two EX112-4 cabs up for sale. Only problem with the DNS-210 is that it is not cheap. Street price is ~$849 including standard speakers or $949 for the one with Neo speakers. Here's my DNS-210:
Really though, to get you going nicely without breaking the bank, get a couple of those EX-112's before they are gone (Eden no longer makes them) but get them in 8 ohm instead of 4 ohm unless you have an amp that will handle a 2 ohm load. If you end up with an amp that will handle a 2 ohm load, PM me and I'll be happy to sell you mine.
And make sure you get an amp (preferably class D) that will put out 500 to 800-watts into 4 ohms. That will drive the two 8 ohm cabs nicely. I really liked the light weight set-up I used for one 112, but I have to use my heavy amp (about 36-lbs in its rack) when I use two and it sure would be nice to have a light amp I could use for everything.
My next purchase from DNA will be their DNA-800, which is an 800-watt class D amp that weighs all of 4.8-lbs. and will drive either of my DNS cabs just fine. Street price on it is $799 new and there are a fair amount of 500-watt Class D amps out there used that will run ~$500.
For buying used cabs, look at the Eden cabs, they've been around forever, they are usually available used, and they are very hard to destroy. HOWEVER, unless you get a killer deal on the D112XLT or a D112XST buy the Eden EX112. Eden is no longer making them and price is under $300 (I paid $269 for mine). Yes the D series sounds better, but not $600 better...not by a long shot.
I bought one for a small brew pub that originally made me play through their Peavey 112 combo. Didn't like the sound of it and I ended up ordering one of the Eden EX112-4 cabs because a friend of mine in the UK just ranted and raved about them. They have a very small foot print because they have a whizzer cone (speaker cone within a cone) instead of a separate horn for the high-mids and highs. I was apprehensive about it right until I receive mine. I gigged with it the very next night and two-days later ordered a second one.
These Eden EX112's really have a nice sound. I ran one cab with a class D Eden TN-226 head (225-watts@ 4 ohms) for one but since I got them in 4 ohm (thinking I would only ever have one) I have to use my big amp with them to run both at (one into each side of my dual-powerblock amp). Here's what I was using for small venues like that brewpub:
For medium-sized gigs, I used both of them turned on their side so the amp doesn't overhang too much. I have to use my big amp running one 4 ohm cab from each side. They'll handle 300-watts each and that amp puts out 400-watts per channel, but I don't play them anywhere near the max the cabs can handle. I will often put them on top of a milk crate to get them up off the floor a little bit:
For large venues, outdoor venues, and outdoor festivals, I'll use my DNS-410 by DNA.
I'm actually selling both of my Eden EX112's now though. Price is $200 plus actual shipping charge. Despite the fact that they sound really good, the sound characteristics of my DNS cab are better. Since I'm now a DNA Endorser, I decided to get their DNS-210 cab to use at small and medium venues instead of using one or two of the EX112's.
I've been using it at rehearsals for about a month and a half and gigged with it right before Christmas. It does indeed have the sound characteristics as my 410 but in a smaller package. It's also much louder than I expected (max SPL=134db). It will handle 700-watts and my amp puts out 800 watts bridged. I can take it into small venues without scaring the owner of the place and I can use it at medium-sized venues easily. Yes it weighs more than one of the EX112's, but it's not as heavy as two of them.
I still use my DNS-410 for large venues, outdoor venues, and outdoor festivals. If you have FOH reinforcement, the DNS-210 is all you need for the stage. So now I just use either the DNS-210 or the DNS-410 and have my two EX112-4 cabs up for sale. Only problem with the DNS-210 is that it is not cheap. Street price is ~$849 including standard speakers or $949 for the one with Neo speakers. Here's my DNS-210:
Really though, to get you going nicely without breaking the bank, get a couple of those EX-112's before they are gone (Eden no longer makes them) but get them in 8 ohm instead of 4 ohm unless you have an amp that will handle a 2 ohm load. If you end up with an amp that will handle a 2 ohm load, PM me and I'll be happy to sell you mine.
And make sure you get an amp (preferably class D) that will put out 500 to 800-watts into 4 ohms. That will drive the two 8 ohm cabs nicely. I really liked the light weight set-up I used for one 112, but I have to use my heavy amp (about 36-lbs in its rack) when I use two and it sure would be nice to have a light amp I could use for everything.
My next purchase from DNA will be their DNA-800, which is an 800-watt class D amp that weighs all of 4.8-lbs. and will drive either of my DNS cabs just fine. Street price on it is $799 new and there are a fair amount of 500-watt Class D amps out there used that will run ~$500.
Allot of good advice has been given. Considering your description a 500w class d compact head will more than cover your needs. Your wise to go used. You could probably manage with less but for the sake of future proofing i would go with the largest your budget allows. 8 ohm cab / cabs 112 or 210 will do the job nicely and maintain portability. I would lean to the 210 and adding an option of a second 210 cab if the "rock" part of your expected gig genres go-ahead. Some will disagree. I don't think the brand is so crucial allot of great reliable heads out there for bargain prices. I've melted a few Mark bass units so personally stay away from them but again that's due to issues that have long been overcome. Good luck and happy New year!
I don't necessarily agree with the "don't get a combo" crowd. There are some pretty serious combos out there these days, some at really good prices. Now if you want to be really loud, I might suggest a bigger cab like a 410 or two 210's or 115's with 300w, but if you will be playing less volume-intensive stuff than that, some of these combos will put out some decent tone and be less obtrusive than a bigger rig. I'm using my smaller rigs way more these days, but I do have some serious firepower for when I need it. The good thing about separates, though, is they're more modular, and you can build one nice rig that can do both small and fairly loud stuff with a small but powerful head and something like a couple 210's or 115's.
Oh, finally coming over to the Low Side?
Welcome!
I played my first gig on bass with a GK MB200 head into a Hartke 210XL. 140W RMS into a 2x10 cab. And it sounded great. Partly bc the hotel lobby had DI from the head into their excellent house system, partly because I had affordable but also high-quality and very tweakable gear.
Combos are convenient but can be limiting; modular rigs are flexible but can be a headache. On bass, tone is a huge factor since the way we present the low end can literally change a song's style, so that flexibility is the popular approach... but a good combo can be manipulated to be flexible, too, so your mileage may vary.
Personally, I have my current specialized rig now, but will gig thru just about anything that produces notes if necessity entails. And make it work. If your current goal is to survive gigs, look for reliability and simplicity and affordability and general good character and you're gonna sound fine.
Welcome!
I played my first gig on bass with a GK MB200 head into a Hartke 210XL. 140W RMS into a 2x10 cab. And it sounded great. Partly bc the hotel lobby had DI from the head into their excellent house system, partly because I had affordable but also high-quality and very tweakable gear.
Combos are convenient but can be limiting; modular rigs are flexible but can be a headache. On bass, tone is a huge factor since the way we present the low end can literally change a song's style, so that flexibility is the popular approach... but a good combo can be manipulated to be flexible, too, so your mileage may vary.
Personally, I have my current specialized rig now, but will gig thru just about anything that produces notes if necessity entails. And make it work. If your current goal is to survive gigs, look for reliability and simplicity and affordability and general good character and you're gonna sound fine.
My current impossible dream includes a Phil Jones BP-800 head and Barefaced Big Baby II cab..... completely out of reach of those in the sticks like me (taxes, duties, shipping, etc).....
