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Getting that "Plays like butter" feel from cheap basses?

#21
ByF said:
I agree. You can't set up the nut slots low enough to "play like butter" if the frets are uneven.
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Mmmmm......sort of. Remember, as soon as you fret a note, the nut disappears from the equation. So if you have uneven frets, you'll have buzzing no matter how low or high the nut is cut. Even if it's cut ridiculously high you'll still have buzz (but not on open strings).
The only things the nut affects are: 1) feel at the lower positions, and 2) fret clearance on OPEN strings only.
 
#27
While cheapie basses can be made to play extremely well--my OLP plays amazingly well since I defretted it, re-radiused the neck, did some work on the bridge, and put in a new nut--there's more to playability than just a setup.

The fingerboard radius, the neck shape, and the overall balance of the instrument all play a part, too. That's another reason why some basses just "feel" like a million bucks, and some feel like a baseball bat with strings.

Still, read a bit about setups, and don't be scared to expiriment on cheaper instruments. I learned quite a bit that way.

And, just my opinion, don't find out what you like and don't by playing ONLY less expensive instruments. I make a point of dropping in to music stores whenever possible, and playing instruments well out of my price range. Doing that was part of what let me set up my less expensive instruments to feel better.
 
#28
everyone can talk all their 'low action' and cut nuts , which is all good and true, but a main playability factor in my head is the way the neck is cut.

i can't stand playing a bass where the edge of the fretboard is cut too sharply and cuts into my fingers. Fret leveling and image are a big factor too.
if i pick up a rick and play it, and than a rick with a gloss finish on the fretboard i will probably think that the gloss finished neck plays better (even if they are exactly the same). it just LOOKS smoother.

also take a look at how the back of the neck is cut/finished. a thick poly finish is going to be more sticky and less smooth to play on (even if you don't notice), while a thinner finish is going to play much more nicely.

best bet is to get a prominent local luthier to take a look at it. don't take it to guitar center. i'm sure some of their luthiers are good and all, but i took my bass to a guitar center for a setup , and it came back worse off then before.
 
#29
micximus said:
I just don't feel like I've played bass long enough to know what's important to me and justify sinking lots of money into a nice instrument - yet. My plan is to trade in and out of a variety of cheaper instruments to get a feel for what I like/dislike, THEN drop the big bucks.
Click to expand...

if you love your bass but don't like how the neck plays, you're in luck..

try out some other basses whose necks you like, than find out it's specs. order a drop in replacement neck with the same specs, (radius, neck shape, fret size, nut).

much cheaper. . .
 
#30
WalterBush said:
and don't be scared to expiriment on cheaper instruments.
Click to expand...

Ha, that ship has sailed.

You're talking to the owner of the world's only Ibanez EX with a natural oil finish, satin neck, and matching wood electronics compartment cover. (that last part would be overkill except the cover was missing when I bought it - 1/8th birch ply seemed the easiest thing to make it out of).
 
#31
Fetusyolk said:
if you love your bass but don't like how the neck plays, you're in luck..

try out some other basses whose necks you like, than find out it's specs. order a drop in replacement neck with the same specs, (radius, neck shape, fret size, nut).

much cheaper. . .
Click to expand...


I have a number of basses with different neck widths, scales, shapes (including a V-shaped neck) and finishes - I like all of them. I agree that the neck needs to feel comfortable, but for many players "comfortable" encompasses a wide range of variations. It's up to the player.
 
#32
A good set=up by a competent tech should make a world of difference.
One important factor that is often over looked is the nut.
Make sure that is properly adjusted as well.
 
#33
Allow me to point out to the Get what you pay for folks, that there are MANY brands out there these days (Gibson anyone?) where you do NOT get what you pay for, not to mention the out of control vintage market.

There are quite a few nice brands that you DO get what you pay for, but theres at least as many where the instruments are nowhere near as good as their price suggests.
 
#34
micximus said:
Clearly, my $15 squier P. (thank you craigslist) isn't ever going to *sound* as good as a $2k MIA but you've given me hope that with some more setup work it can at least *play* CLOSE.
Click to expand...

I'll take an optimal setup over a logo on the headstock all day long, though I prefer higher-end stuff because it tends to not need as much "TLC" to get to that level of playability and tends to be a little more stable, but if you know how to do a setup (and all musicians should), that shouldn't be much of a problem anyway.

An experienced technician can get your Squire playing just about as good as any MIA Fender, and if you want it to sound better, you can always replace the tuners/bridge/pickup, which given what you spent on the bass, would still amount to a fairly inexpensive instrument overall.

To me, a great setup is almost as worthwhile an investment as the instrument itself, and at the end of the day, the person holding the instrument is what makes it all count.
 
#35
micximus said:
That link comes up as "malware"

Of course I'm at work right now and our corporate filter is super-sensitive.
Click to expand...

The site is the official site of the PLEK machine.
The link goes into explaining the 4 areas of playability adjustments:
- Neck relief
- Saddle Height
- Nut depth
- Intonation

Very LONG read, but tons of info (mostly geared toward acoustic 6 bangers, but still helpful in that generic sort of way as it applies to all stringed instruments)


Quote on machine:
The plek is a German made computer-controlled machine tool that scans an instrument, strung and tuned to pitch. The scan generates many graphic images, complete with extensive dimensional data regarding the neck, fingerboard, frets, strings, nut and bridge. In other words, it allows you to choose and view any aspect of the neck, frets and strings in detail while providing measurements of everything. The technician can then do a virtual fret dress on the computer monitor, applying any of the usual preferences and styles that go into an ideal fret dress for that instrument. Then, when this virtual fret dress is ready, the loosened strings are moved to the side of the neck so that the plek can dress and shape the frets. The plek then does that exact fret dress extremely accurately and referenced to its original scan so that, when restrung, the fret plane is level, the relief is ideal, and the finished fret shape is very consistent. All of this is done to tolerances as tight as .0004in., is far more accurate than manual work, and is consistent every time.
 
#36
dmusic148 said:
Mmmmm......sort of. Remember, as soon as you fret a note, the nut disappears from the equation.
Click to expand...

Umm, I think I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. The nut doesn't disappear from the equation; it is still holding that end of the string at a fixed height above the fretboard, and it affects how hard you have to press the string to fret it cleanly. It affects the playability of the bass on every note, especially as you said, the lower frets.

Ed
 
#38
tlr1293 said:
Quote on machine:
The plek is a German made computer-controlled machine tool that scans an instrument, strung and tuned to pitch. The scan generates many graphic images, complete with extensive dimensional data regarding the neck, fingerboard, frets, strings, nut and bridge. In other words, it allows you to choose and view any aspect of the neck, frets and strings in detail while providing measurements of everything. The technician can then do a virtual fret dress on the computer monitor, applying any of the usual preferences and styles that go into an ideal fret dress for that instrument. Then, when this virtual fret dress is ready, the loosened strings are moved to the side of the neck so that the plek can dress and shape the frets. The plek then does that exact fret dress extremely accurately and referenced to its original scan so that, when restrung, the fret plane is level, the relief is ideal, and the finished fret shape is very consistent. All of this is done to tolerances as tight as .0004in., is far more accurate than manual work, and is consistent every time.
Click to expand...

This is the key right here - the Plek machine does not work without human interaction. If this were the case, I'd bet that every fret job would be fantastic. As it is, it's still a tool that can be mis-used.
 
#40
ByF said:
Umm, I think I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. The nut doesn't disappear from the equation; it is still holding that end of the string at a fixed height above the fretboard, and it affects how hard you have to press the string to fret it cleanly. It affects the playability of the bass on every note, especially as you said, the lower frets.

Ed
Click to expand...
Sure, but my comment was in reference to fret buzz only, and how it does or does not relate to the nut.
 

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