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Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Bredian, Aug 6, 2012.

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  1. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 29, 2008
    I convert 4 string Rickenbackers to 5 string basses.
    Here's part of that statement ......


    CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We feel that Gibson was inappropriately targeted, and a matter that could have been addressed with a simple contact a caring human being representing the government. Instead, the Government used violent and hostile means with the full force of the US Government and several armed law enforcement agencies costing the tax payer millions of dollars and putting a job creating US manufacture at risk and at a competitive disadvantage. This shows the increasing trend on the part of government to criminalize rules and regulations and treat US businesses in the same way drug dealers are treated. This is wrong and it is unfair. I am committed to working hard to correct the inequity that the law allows and insure there is fairness, due process, and the law is used for its intended purpose of stopping bad guys and stopping the very real deforestation of our planet".


    Our government is not business friendly ...
  2. Bredian


    Apr 22, 2011
    THanks. The earlier posts took the government's POV. Gibson published the actual agreement, which is telling. This is our same DOJ that has the gun running problem.
  3. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 29, 2008
    I convert 4 string Rickenbackers to 5 string basses.
    Ya the DOJ has become the dept of INjustice
  4. Bredian


    Apr 22, 2011
    Appendix A, paragraph 4 of the agreement: "Gibson ordered ebony fingerboard blanks to use in the manufacture of guitars from T.N. GMBH, a company based in Hamburg, Germany. Based upon documentation now in Gibson's possession, T.N. purchased some of its ebony fingerboard blanks from R.T., a forestry operator in Madagascar. Gibson maintains that specific information concerning that sourcing was not provided to Gibson by T.N. when Gibson placed its orders. Gibson assumed, without asking, that T.N. had undertaken to provide it with lawfully harvested and exported materials and, after the execution of the search warrant in this case, T.N. represented to Gibson that it had supplied legally obtained and exported materials. "

    Amazing. Yet the foreign food sources are hardly looked at by the FDA. More melamine please?
  5. FunkRenegade


    Jul 7, 2012
    Armed raids? Sadly it's almost comical.

    MOTORHEADBANGER Spud-boy looking for a real tomato

    Dec 23, 2008
    Sidney, Indiana
    It seems like something out of a political cartoon, but sadly that's our taxdollars at work.
  7. Kraken


    Jun 19, 2001
    Aylesbury, England
    this has been widely acknowledged outside North America for some time. And I don't think it is just that one Government.

    I'm glad that it looks like Gibson are going to be able to get on with making good instruments without this hanging over them now.

    How the BBC Reported it

  8. fisticuffs


    May 3, 2011
    Madison, WI
    Didn't know it was supposed to be. Thought it was by the people for the people. Not by the businesses for the businesses. Henry has lied through this whole process. He broke the law and tried to PR his way out of it by complaining he was being targeted. He was, but only because he was guilty of breaking the law.
  9. I'm only vaguely familiar with what's been going on. Do I understand it correctly?

    >Gibson buys wood from a company in Germany
    >Said German company (unbeknownst to Gibson) obtained wood illegally
    >US gov't finds out about the illegal wood and does an armed raid on a Gibson plant
    >Gibson now has to pay $300k in fines
  10. i just feel like telling everybody that my '77 Gibson RD Standard is absolutely the best bass of all time!!!:bassist:
  11. WalterBush


    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    Just out of curiosity, who do you think runs businesses? Robots? Martians? AI supercomputers? Also, if you have proof that the current Gibson CEO lied through the whole process, I bet the DOJ would like to hear from you so they can start the next set of proceedings.

    The wood importer Gibson buys wood from supplies the same blanks to multiple US- and foreign based guitar manufacturers. None of them were raided at gunpoint, which is suspicious and more than a little bit of overkill. What were the agents armed for? Chisel and file wielding luthiers or lunatics armed with air-driven power sanders?

    Glad it's over, at least.
  12. WalterBush


    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    That's interesting...and entirely different coverage than has been had here. I can't help but feel that while the details behind the legal arguments and estimated values of seized materials are more comprehensive, that there's a few key facts missing somewhere...
  13. Gaius46


    Dec 15, 2010
    Sadly there's nothing comical about it. Gibson aside there are increasing numbers of cases of very heavily armed law enforcement personnel being dispatched to do things like serve warrants. Police in riot gear carrying AR-15s and the like are a common sight around here. The militarization of law enforcement is quite honestly frightening.

    That's about right. The way the Lacy Act is written the onus is on the owner of the wood - in this case Gibson - to make sure it was legally obtained. Ignorance is not a defense in this case.

    That btw applies to end users as well. As a guitar owner you are legally required to insure that all the wood in your instrument was legally obtained or you'd be in inviolation of the Lacy Act. The fact that it's probably impossible for you to comply with the law is no defense.

    On that topic I saw an interview with a spokesperson for the Fish and Wildlife Service who, when asked flat out whether a consumer would be in violation of the Lacy Act if they owned an instrument with illegally obtained wood answered:

    The government has no intention of going after consumers

    Translation: Yes it's a violation of the Lacy Act and this government for now won't bother you but that could change at any time.
  14. Unprofessional


    Mar 5, 2012
    I've often wondered how people who don't own or control the rain forests are supposed to save them when the people who do own and control the rain forests are not the least bit interested in doing so.
  15. bjabass


    Jan 10, 2011
    Mountain South
    No, his viewpoint is that of the OWS idiots who think anybody that gets up and goes to work in the morning instead of protesting and demanding that the "government" give them everything they need or want is part of the 1% 'rich' people.

    God forbid that the wood harvested in Madagascar should end up on a high end guitar made by the bourgeois rich guys and played by them too. Better it should be used as firewood for a local peasant.

    It used to be virtuous that someone made a great product and made some money and created a job for somebody else. Now if the wood you use isn't 'finished' enough for the feds, they send in the storm troops to throw you in the dungeon.
  16. RCCollins

    RCCollins Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    San Diego, California
    Um, you guys realize that in the settlement, Gibson ADMITS to KNOWING that the wood they purchased was illegally harvested and obtained.

    The CEO can complain about being singled out all he wants. He can throw Tea Party rallies too. But at the end of the day he ADMITTED TO KNOWINGLY USING ILLEGALLY HARVESTED WOOD.

    Let's not make this political. It's a crime, and guilt has been admitted.
  17. fisticuffs


    May 3, 2011
    Madison, WI
    I thought politics was against the Talkbass rules. What the hell is the above post?

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