Gigging bassist looking for tips/advice on new rig

[ImTheARSonist]

Hey guys! I'm a new Talk Bass member(though I've been reading the forums for a long time), high fives all around! You guys rock! Sorry if this post is a bit long, but I've been holding these questions in my mind for too long.

*(Start Background/Intro to the forums)
I was a guitar player in a band that plays gigs in the tri-state of NJ, PA, and DE(the greater Delaware Valley). I'll admit it now, I'm a gear whore(and pretty broke, the perfect match of course). Now I've switched to bass more recently to fulfill the needs of the band and to expand my horizons as a musician.

I made the switch about 2 years ago and didn't know if the switch would be permanent at the time. I purchased an entry level Hartke half-stack(an HA2500 head and a matching VX410 cab), a Spector Legend 5 String(my main bass) and an Aslin Dane 5 String Music Man knockoff(which I'm still absolutely in LOVE with, it's way better than any Sterling bass or OLP copy I've played). Well now, it's looking like the change(or evolution as another member here put it so elegantly) is going to be a permanent one. I'll still be a 6 or 7 String guitarist at heart, but now I'm going to master the Mid AND Low range.
*(/End Background Story)

Enough background, I'm looking to upgrade my whole rig because thus far, I've been wanting more out of this heavy gear I have to load and unload constantly. I've got a plethora of options in front of me and I have no clue where to start because there are SO few real bassist in this area and even fewer that actually care about their tone and gear. I attempted to start with upgrading the head to a Line 6 Low Down HD400, which sounded GREAT in the store with the matching cab, but gave terrible results when it made it back to the practice space. I returned the next day after leaving a pretty bad taste in my mouth(no balls, extremely quiet even though the ohms matched, reliable speaker cables, and the amp functioning correctly) and I've craved some better gear ever since.

The shops(a few Guitar Centers in driving range, a Sam Ash or two and some crummy local shops) around me carry a pretty lackluster selection of bass equipment (just your typical budget combo amps, few heads and cabs, and even fewer preamps or poweramps). I haven't had a lot of luck getting to try the gear I've had my eye on, so I'll probably have to purchase everything online sadly. I'll condense this part and lay the options I've considered on the table.

Options:
Light and small are always a plus here..
1)Your typical bass head and cab layout
2)A Preamp and Power Amp setup to a cab
3)A Mix of 1 and 2(maybe have the preamp in front or in the Effects Loop)

Which do you think would make the greatest change in my sound?
1)Upgrade/Get rid of the cab
2)Upgrade/Get rid of the head
3)Add some additional pieces to make it all work(i.e. a Sansamp RPM or RBI, maybe an Eden preamp or something completely different).

Gear I've had my eye on:
TC Electronics heads and cabs(I've had my eyes on these for a while, but I just got to hear the BH500 head and R210 cab setup)
Peavey Tour head
Tech 21's Preamps(like the RBI and RPM.) Thanks to this thread for pointing them out to me. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/sansamp-rbi-vs-rpm-386299/
And as crazy as this may sound, a Behringer Bass V-Amp Pro Rackmount. Thanks to this thread. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/behringer-bass-v-amp-pro-687422/

These are just a few ideas, nothing concrete. I play in band that sounds kind of like Red, Chevelle, Breaking Benjamin, Nonpoint, Taproot, Skindred, something like that, but heavier in some regards. I like really tight, banging bass but when I hit the higher notes I want them to thump pretty evenly, which my Hartke is terrible with, no matter how I EQ it up. Either sounds tinny like a hair metal bassist or smooth but nothing cuts through. We play pretty damn loud(usually one of the louder bands because we actually care about sounding like a bigger, professional band and we know how to tune our stuff up). I play mostly with a pick, but I have like a little hybrid style with some finger picking on cleaner stuff and more intricate parts that call for a lot string skipping.

I'm just looking for some guidance from some fellow gear whores that play bass! lol. Money isn't the biggest issue for once in my life, but I'm really trying to keep this below 1K after all is said and done(I'm not making money off of this gear yet sadly!).

Sorry for such a lengthy post, but maybe if a few people can offer a little help in each portion, maybe I can get some more concrete thoughts on selecting new gear!

Thanks so much to anyone who even took the time to read this!

 

[rpsands]

Cabs make the most difference to quality and volume of sound for me.

My budget rig recommendation of choice is an Ampeg PF500 and an Avatar TB153, right now.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

Thanks for responding!

I've look at that Ampeg a number of times. They're pretty easy to find(although if I remember correctly, they were the lower model that has less features). I'll make sure to give that a rundown the next time I'm in a music shop. I've also heard about Avatar cabs a good bit, but that one is pretty pricey! It's even more than an Ampeg 15! Any particular reason you recommend that cab(size and brand included) over others?

 

[Korladis]

Don't limit yourself to new gear.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

Don't limit yourself to new gear.

As I said, I'm totally flexible. New or used gear is perfectly cool with me if it's obtainable. Do you happen to have any recommendations?

 

[Foz]

This fEARful 15/6 kit will run you about $700 with shipping - but total cost depends on how you configure it...

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Building the xover from parts is pretty easy if you can solder - you can save a few bucks. You can also skip the horn and save a few more [I recommend you add a horn but this can be done later if your budget is tight].

Add an inexpensive preamp with a versatile EQ [BBE bass pre's go for about $100] - then snap up a reliable PA amp that'll do 750 watts or better bridged into 8 ohms [pretty good buyer's market on big-iron PA amps these days now that every one and his brother is going with the new light weight stuff].

You should be able to pull all that off for at your $1k budget.

You will probably want a lighter power amp someday - and a booteek toob preamp upgrade may be in your future, but that dog will hunt. You will have an extremely versatile rig that will do fat, punchy, slappy or anything in between.

If you want to add some edge maybe try or one of the tone pedals like the sansamp VT [about $150] or maybe an aggy tone hammer [+/- $220] either together with or in lieu of the BBE.

 

[faulknersj]

+1 to the Avater TB-153 recomendation. Regarding your G-string issue...raise your pickup (or pickups) on the G string side...particularly the neck pup if your bass has one. I also highly recommend the Genz Benz Streamliner 900. Just and incredible tubey 5lb 900 watt head.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

This fEARful 15/6 kit will run you about $700 with shipping - but total cost depends on how you configure it...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Building the xover from parts is pretty easy if you can solder - you can save a few bucks. You can also skip the horn and save a few more [I recommend you add a horn but this can be done later if your budget is tight].

Add an inexpensive preamp with a versatile EQ [BBE bass pre's go for about $100] - then snap up a reliable PA amp that'll do 750 watts or better bridged into 8 ohms [pretty good buyer's market on big-iron PA amps these days now that every one and his brother is going with the new light weight stuff].

You should be able to pull all that off for at your $1k budget.

You will probably want a lighter power amp someday - and a booteek toob preamp upgrade may be in your future, but that dog will hunt. You will have an extremely versatile rig that will do fat, punchy, slappy or anything in between.

If you want to add some edge maybe try or one of the tone pedals like the sansamp VT [about $150] or maybe an aggy tone hammer [+/- $220] either together with or in lieu of the BBE.

Hmm... Never heard of fEARful. I'm intrigued, but dude those cabs START at $615 w/nothing included and you're recommending I pickup a 750-watt PA to go with it? Even the cheapest PA would eclipse that kind of price range by far. What is the draw to their cabs over something like an Epifani or Bergantino or even an Avatar cab? They're all similar priced cabs from smaller, reowned companies, so why go with fEARful?

Thanks again for input! I'm learning a lot more options are out there than I originally believed(since no one has addressed any of the gear I've recommended). I've got a ton more research to do apparently...

 

[Mark Olson]

Just thought I'd throw in that if you're having problems with string balance like your post seemed to indicate (what I mean is having a nice fairly even thump from all your strings) a new pickup can work wonders in that regard. Food for thought.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

+1 to the Avater TB-153 recomendation. Regarding your G-string issue...raise your pickup (or pickups) on the G string side...particularly the neck pup if your bass has one. I also highly recommend the Genz Benz Streamliner 900. Just and incredible tubey 5lb 900 watt head.

Good to hear some others backing the Avatar stuff. What makes them so special? Just good build or good speakers or something? I've heard awesome things about Genz-Benz stuff, but man is that amp expensive! Looks like an amp to keep in mind when I hit the lottery or get a nice tax return.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

Just thought I'd throw in that if you're having problems with string balance like your post seemed to indicate (what I mean is having a nice fairly even thump from all your strings) a new pickup can work wonders in that regard. Food for thought.

That was my original thought with the Aslin Dane(since I figured that maybe that was their place to skimp on the price a bit). But the Spector Legend I just bought has the exact same issue on either pickup(middle or bridge). The Spector definitely has a better thump on the E string but the A, D, and G just don't pop out when the whole band is playing. Maybe I'm just unlucky with the pickup height on both basses? Lol. I'll make sure to double-check it when I do my next setup and string changes on them.

Got any recommendations for replacement MM humbucker style pickups? I've always like EMGs and I see they make replacements.

 

[faulknersj]

You really do get what you pay for. It is better to save up and get the rig you really need and want, otherwise you will find yourself in the same boat you are in now. Here is what makes the Avatar TB-153 a steal. It has about the best Neo (lightweight) 15 inch driver on the market today. This 15 pushes a ton of air, and produces huge clean bottom end. It also has a 6 inch driver that handles all of your mids and really adds cut through definition to your tone. There is also a 1 inch tweeter that provides crytal clear high end definition. All this in a 60lb package for $450. It is the most full range cab I have ever played. Also, attributing the G-String issue to you amp or cab is false in my opinion. That is an issue with your bass and/or setup and or/ EQ. It will most likely have that same issue thru any rig. Raise the pickup (loosen the screws) on the G-string side so the pup(s) are closer to the string. Go try it now if you can and let me know how it works You will be surprised how much pickup height effects tone!

 

[Korladis]

As I said, I'm totally flexible. New or used gear is perfectly cool with me if it's obtainable. Do you happen to have any recommendations?

Sorry, was tired and must have glossed that over. I'd check out Peavey. Maybe some of Mesa's hybrid heads. You don't seem to be into tube amps, so I won't go there.

 

[ImTheARSonist]

You really do get what you pay for. It is better to save up and get the rig you really need and want, otherwise you will find yourself in the same boat you are in now. Here is what makes the Avatar TB-153 a steal. It has about the best Neo (lightweight) 15 inch driver on the market today. This 15 pushes a ton of air, and produces huge clean bottom end. It also has a 6 inch driver that handles all of your mids and really adds cut through definition to your tone. There is also a 1 inch tweeter that provides crytal clear high end definition. All this in a 60lb package for $450. It is the most full range cab I have ever played. Also, attributing the G-String issue to you amp or cab is false in my opinion. That is an issue with your bass and/or setup and or/ EQ. It will most likely have that same issue thru any rig. Raise the pickup (loosen the screws) on the G-string side so the pup(s) are closer to the string. Go try it now if you can and let me know how it works You will be surprised how much pickup height effects tone!

Sounds good man! How would you say one of these Avatar cabs holds up against a fEARful setup? I'm going to guess price is clearly a factor here, seeing that a fEARful kit that isn't constructed starts at about 200+ more than this Avatar cab. I just read a massive thread about the fEARful stuff and why "I'll never look at another cab again" so I'm just kind of comparing that reading to your knowledge of cabs(which you appear to know a good bit about). I'd say as of right now, you've definitely piqued my interest in the Avatar stuff.

PS: What's your thoughts on a single 15 vs a 2 x 12 Avatar Neo cab? (just picking your brain here)

 

[kosmicwizard]

The Avatar TB-153 is great s^$t and the 15/6/1 layout is totally based on the fEarful design, save yourself some moeny and get what you want for less! All the best in your quest, my friend. Cheers.

 

[MNAirHead]

what kind of PA support and monitors?

 

[bigdaddyMS]

for the value I highly recommend the ampeg pf500. Played 3 gigs on mine now and love love it. Got It pushing an Eden 4x10 XLT 4 ohm 700 wt cab and it pushes it super hard and the tone of those two with my Yamaha bass is just heaven.

 

[Foz]

The Avatar TB-153 is great s^$t and the 15/6/1 layout is totally based on the fEarful design,

How ya figure?

The box & port are not sized right for the woofer, it is not properly braced, the drivers are not laid out for off axis function and the xover is kindergarten grade... its a three-way cab with a 3015LF woof, a 6.5 mid and a horn, but a fEARful it aint.

My $0.02, don't go cheap on the cab.

====

Also look at the Carvin heads [BX1500 or some such] - that thing looks like a nice alternative to the pre/power amp method. Versatile EQ with tons of power. I think you might be $150 or so over budget if you go that way, but it'd be a nice rig.

 

[lomo]

Avatar TB153 and used Genz Shuttle 9.0 (total about 1100)

2nd choice: pair of GK neo-2 112 cabs and GK MB500 (total 1200 new)

 

[philter25]

Based on the type of music you play, have you looked into the Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe? It can get dirty and cover those genres, and stay crystal clear also. Lots of flexibility with that pedal and the deluxe gives you 6 footswitchable tones, so if you want a fat tubey sound on one song, then an SVT sound on another, then a little over drive on another, then balls distortion on another, you can.

I think a 4 ohm Avatar cab and a 500-600 watt micro head at 4 ohms would be a nice match if you are looking for a 1 cab fits all solution.

Lomo's suggestion is also a good one with the Shuttle.

You mentioned light and small are a plus, check out my signature. Light and small are requirements for me, so Im using a Shuttle 6.0, with 2-112 cabs with the VT bass in front. I set the shuttle to flat, with both cabs connected, I get the full 600 watts from the shuttle, and then I use the VT bass deluxe pedal for my tone. I use the EQ on the shuttle to EQ the room.

If you want the biggest change to your sound at the cheapest price, check out just the VT bass deluxe. Set the preamp on your head/cab for it to sound tonally flat. Then plug into the VT bass and go to town. If your current head/cab combo give you enough volume that you need, a simple VT bass deluxe can totally change your tone and give you much more options with your tone and expand it.