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Goin through the board?

M

monroe55

Mar 17, 2009
421
4
#1
What happens when I play out at a gig and the sound guy takes the chord into my amp and plugs it into some box. I still hear sound from my speakers when the show starts so he isnt bypassing my rig as I come through the PA. What is that box doing?
How do I get the sound of my rig (my preamp sound that took forever to get) to be what comes out through PA. I feel like bass thats heard out in the crowd is not the bass sound I hear on stage from my rig. How can I stop the sound guy from doing this?
I have a BDDI Sans that sits in my closet. What is that thing for and can it help me here? I like my sound and volume on stage now so I never tried to use it. I feel I can use it to somehow ward off sound guys.
 
#4
What modulusman said, it's a DI box. While micing bass cabinets is possible, this is generally the preferred method of putting bass sound through the PA. There's plenty of conflicting views about this among bass players, but from a sound guy perspective, it's much easier to control the sound of the bass when a DI is used to get an uncolored tone.

Besides, your bass tone (like guitar tone), isn't going to sound the same through a PA system as it does coming straight from your cabinet. Your best bet to preserve your sound is to ask for a second line to the PA with a mic on your cabinet, or pick up a DI that can go between your head and cabinet.
 
#5
some reading for you...

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574309
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=603403

then search "BDDI" "MXR M80" "Radial Bassbone" here and in the effects forum.


When the soundguy uses 'that box' (called a DI Box for Direct Input) he is taking the signal directly from your bass, and sending it to the mixer. There is a parallel out that runs to your amp. So you hear your 'sound', but none of it goes to the house.

The sansamp and similar are special DI boxes that help you color the sound that gets sent to the house.

This is an unending argument about mic'ing the cab, or using the DI. Some amps have a built in DI to further complicate opinions. Use the search function to find for yourself, but you're (re)opening pandora's box.
 
#7
Hi.

Since the mystery box is solved, onto the other dilemma.

monroe55 said:
I feel like bass thats heard out in the crowd is not the bass sound I hear on stage from my rig. How can I stop the sound guy from doing this?
Click to expand...

That's extremely easy to answer. In my humble opinion anyway ;).

As You pay the soundperson to do Your sound, he's working for You, and therefore You can pretty much dictate what he uses or how You as a band sound.

If You don't pay him, You're at his mercy. You can make requests beforehand, and the majority of sound engineers will do everything possible to meet those requests, but not on a moments notice. And not if there's 10 bands on the bill.

Do remember, it's Your job to entertain people, and it's the sound engineers job to get everything sound decent. The audiences likes or dislikes always come first if You want to keep on entertaining.

Regards
Sam
 
#8
T-Bird said:
Hi.

Since the mystery box is solved, onto the other dilemma.



That's extremely easy to answer. In my humble opinion anyway ;).

As You pay the soundperson to do Your sound, he's working for You, and therefore You can pretty much dictate what he uses or how You as a band sound.

If You don't pay him, You're at his mercy. You can make requests beforehand, and the majority of sound engineers will do everything possible to meet those requests, but not on a moments notice. And not if there's 10 bands on the bill.

Do remember, it's Your job to entertain people, and it's the sound engineers job to get everything sound decent. The audiences likes or dislikes always come first if You want to keep on entertaining.

Regards
Sam
Click to expand...

I can live with that.
I get it now. Be kind to the sound guy, and if he feels like it, he'll be kind to your sound.
I guess Im really trying to find a use for this sansamp bddi but I dont seem to need it. Ima get rid of it in favor of some other toy. Thanks.
 
#9
one of the biggest uses is if for some reason your amp gives out at a gig, you can go direct and still sound ok. Or if you just don't want to bring your amp to a gig. Or you get to a gig and the provided BL is a 10w Crate.

I'd say since you already own it, keep it. Even if you never use it, it provides peace of mind. Consider it your 'back up amp.'

Any way it's up to you. There are always people looking for them in the TB classifieds.
 
#10
The bass out front will never sound the same as what you hear on stage, no matter how good the mic. The mic is not where your ears are, the mic is not colorless, the PA is not colorless. A DI gives what's coming out of the bass with as little coloration as possible. IME a direct signal through a good PA will sound better than 99% of bass rigs.
 
#13
I never let them DI me before my amp. Fine, if they don't want to mic it up, fine. Ideally I'd want a DI and a mic blend, but soundmen are soundmen. But they simply aren't going to get my signal pre-amp. Don't tell me it isn't going to sound good in the house. Don't tell me it's easier for him to control pre-amp. I have heard myself through a PA run the way I want it, and I have heard myself with no PA support. In the house. And my EQ sounds good. I sit in the mix. Where I need to be. He doesn't need to fu** with it, and make me bland. Soundmen shouldn't be TOUCHING the individual three-band EQ on their boards. EQ the room to sound good, and leave my tone alone. Who's being paid to be a musician here?

Sorry to go on a kind of OT rant.
 
#14
M0ses said:
I never let them DI me before my amp. Fine, if they don't want to mic it up, fine. Ideally I'd want a DI and a mic blend, but soundmen are soundmen. But they simply aren't going to get my signal pre-amp. Don't tell me it isn't going to sound good in the house. Don't tell me it's easier for him to control pre-amp. I have heard myself through a PA run the way I want it, and I have heard myself with no PA support. In the house. And my EQ sounds good. I sit in the mix. Where I need to be. He doesn't need to fu** with it, and make me bland. Soundmen shouldn't be TOUCHING the individual three-band EQ on their boards. EQ the room to sound good, and leave my tone alone. Who's being paid to be a musician here?

Sorry to go on a kind of OT rant.
Click to expand...

My congratulations on being one of the 1% of bassists who truly knows how to get a superior sound.:smug:
 
#15
M0ses said:
I never let them DI me before my amp. Fine, if they don't want to mic it up, fine. Ideally I'd want a DI and a mic blend, but soundmen are soundmen. But they simply aren't going to get my signal pre-amp. Don't tell me it isn't going to sound good in the house. Don't tell me it's easier for him to control pre-amp. I have heard myself through a PA run the way I want it, and I have heard myself with no PA support. In the house. And my EQ sounds good. I sit in the mix. Where I need to be. He doesn't need to fu** with it, and make me bland. Soundmen shouldn't be TOUCHING the individual three-band EQ on their boards. EQ the room to sound good, and leave my tone alone. Who's being paid to be a musician here?

Sorry to go on a kind of OT rant.
Click to expand...


Ummm, good luck with that approach...



- georgestrings
 
#16
TimmyP said:
My congratulations on being one of the 1% of bassists who truly knows how to get a superior sound.:smug:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I try. And honestly, my tone is not really colored a ton by my EQ anyway. But even so. I have it like I want it. I let him (the soundman) have his way with the volume. There's got to be some trust involed :D. IMO if the soundman has to EQ your bass for you for you to sound good (with a non specialized three band no less), you're the one handling your tone wrong.
 
#18
To MOses... sounds like you need this

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

jdx-34-dds-w-slice-310w.jpg
 
#19
walker rosewood said:
To MOses... sounds like you need this

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

jdx-34-dds-w-slice-310w.jpg
Click to expand...

mmm I don't know about that "cabinet emulation" I've never really liked any of that sort of thing. Doesn't sound quite right to me. Like I said ideally it's a DI - mic blend. But presumably you would be able to turn that feature completely off, so it looks pretty good, aside from the fact that I'd be paying for a feature I wouldn't use.
 
#20
I don't have actual experience with the JDX, but I would read through the 'development', 'product details' etc. pages. I think it could sound as good, or better then the mic. The cab emulation is not the same as a stomp box. It means your head will think/act like it's got a cab attached.

You're mistaken if you think a mic will capture the sound of your cab and send it to the house. First off, the mic has it's own frequency curve and response. Obviously not all mics are the same, add quality issues, etc. THEN it also matters if your mic'ing a cone or a horn or both. THEN it matters if the mic is on or off axis. Then it matters if the mic is 1" from the speaker, 2" or 10" or.... THEN the mic cable itself can make a difference. All of these things are adding their own 'tone' or 'eq' or 'sound' (all mean the same thing) via frequency response and curve. All this before it even gets to the board.

Also, not all mixers have a three band with set frequencies. Most have at least a sweepable mid. Some (like good Midas boards, and certainly digital consols) have a four band full parametric.

Oh, and the freq curve of your cab will be different at a lower volume and mic'd then when you crank it to cut through the PA yourself.
 

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