Going to the dark side (Music streaming) ... suggestions?

[tIANcI]

Streaming is about easy access to music. It's about being able to discover more music. CD quality is still better … IF you have a high end system.

Nothing wrong with streaming and not purchasing physical source like CD or vinyl.

Quality streaming services are still Tidal and Qobuz. These are what the hifi community use.

 

[Isaac_James]

if you know what I mean, you can use alternatives to listen to youtube or spotify without ads.

I think I know what you mean and that method is even worse than youtube and spotify in terms of paying artists.

Disclaimer: I haven't used most of these so I can't speak to the user experience for their apps or websites.

TIDAL pays better than most and has higher fidelity streams.

An incomplete list of streaming services and payouts from this article published in Jan 2024:

• Spotify: $0.003-$0.005 per stream. Artists can expect around $400 for every 100,000 streams.
• Apple Music: $0.006-$0.008 per stream. Artists can expect $600 to $800 for every 100,000 streams.
• Tidal: $0.0125-$0.015. Artists can expect $1,250 to $1,500 for every 100,000 streams on this platform.
• YouTube Music: $0.001-$0.003 per stream. Artists can expect $100 to $300 for every 100,000 streams.
• Amazon Music: $0.004-$0.007 per stream. Artists can expect $400 to $700 for every 100,000 streams.
• Deezer: $0.005-$0.007 per stream. Artists can expect $500 to $700 for every 100,000 streams.

I've seen different figures but most of the articles I can find about this agree that Tidal pays the best out of all these, but it's still not much. I've also seen claims that Napster, ironically, pays even better than TIDAL but I haven't used that since the days of Metallica getting mad at them. I have no idea what their service looks like today. If making sure artists get fairly compensated is important, your best bet is Bandcamp, but that's a lot less convenient than the more conventional streaming services.

 

[Pedullist]

I have a Qobuz account (CD quality), and allow myself to buy downloads on Bandcamp every Bandcamp friday (because all the money goes to the artists). I store them on my 4Tb NAS that has my entire cd collection I collected in the 90s/00s and I stream those albums to a Raspberry PI to my living room hifi. Qobuz pays the artists a tiny bit better (I see the stats of my own albums) and the quality is much better. Spotify premium is still no 44/16, Qobuz is.

But....I could never switch to a subscription only solution. I'd always keep my NAS and streaming device. Why? Every streaming service takes down albums, or changes them at their will. So if you want to hear an untouched version of a Beatles record (one that hasn't been touched by Giles Martin) you're screwed. You get unwanted remasters and remixes. Sometimes they're ok (I like Steven Wilson's remixes and also Visconti's remixes of some Bowie albums) but I'd like to have a choice. Sometimes the entire album disappears because of strange copyright regulations. My NAS always works, even without internet.

 

[Isaac_James]

Streaming is about easy access to music. It's about being able to discover more music. CD quality is still better … IF you have a high end system.

Nothing wrong with streaming and not purchasing physical source like CD or vinyl.

Quality streaming services are still Tidal and Qobuz. These are what the hifi community use.

I know that at least in the case of Spotify and YouTube music, there are settings where you can set the stream quality and the default is the middle of the road option - decent sounding through most basic home setups, car speakers and headphones, while keeping file size down. I usually set mine to high quality when using wi-fi. However I do believe that Tidal and Qobuz are still better if you're working with a higher quality speaker setup

 

[brianrost]

The streaming service that treats artists the best is Bandcamp. The downside is you won't find major label music there, Bandcamp is a distribution service for independent artists. You can purchase the music in physical and download formats depending on what the artist chooses to offer at a price they also choose. Bandcamp takes a small fee per sale and once a month has "Bandcamp Friday" where they take no fees at all for that day. Bandcamp also allows you to tio the artists when buying their music and I always do so.

Most Bandcamp artists allow streaming some or all of the tracks on their releases and the Bandcamp app can be used much like other streaming services.

As far as my streaming I use Spotify and really do not like it overall, but I like it better than any other one I have used so far (Amazon, Deezer and Tidal) because Spotify is the one best integrated with my stereo system. All other services require leaving the phone/tablet/computer app running as I listen, Spotify does not. So once I kick off an album or playlist I can close the app and the music continues. After I shut down the stereo system, when I power back on the music continues from wherever it was stopped. If one or more of those streamers would work the same, I'd have left Spotify behind a long time ago.

 

[tIANcI]

I know that at least in the case of Spotify and YouTube music, there are settings where you can set the stream quality and the default is the middle of the road option - decent sounding through most basic home setups, car speakers and headphones, while keeping file size down. I usually set mine to high quality when using wi-fi. However I do believe that Tidal and Qobuz are still better if you're working with a higher quality speaker setup

I have a fairly high end system. With my hifi system, I listen to hires tracks, the boring audiophile stuff in DSD even. For pop music I prefer a low end system, it does sound more fun on a low end system lol! Maybe it takes me back to how I heard it when I was in my teens.

 

[tIANcI]

I just scored a black deal on a Bluesound Node.

Stick to the Node. Don't look at other streamers. It's a very slippery slope!

 

[RichardW]

I pay for Spotify premium. I don't like the business model because it is so disadvantageous to artists. But what can I do? I'm not going to recreate my old set up: turntable, tuner, speakers, tape deck, and shelves of albums and CDs. And I've found artists and recordings on Spotify that I probably never would have if I were still trolling record stores. I find the sound quality perfectly sufficient for my low-def ears, LOL. Spotify has also opened me up to podcasts and audiobooks (I listened to Geddy Lee's "My F-ing Life" and it was great). Like everything else in life, Spotify has plusses and minuses. In my mind, the former outweigh the latter.

 

[wintremute]

A clear article comparing streaming payouts:

Streaming Payouts Comparison 2024: How Much Does Spotify Pay Per Stream? - AlphansoTech Blog

Check the how much each streaming platform pays to the artists in this blog on streaming payouts comparison.

www.alphansotech.com

Great article. Thank you for sharing.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I have Spotify Premium and Apple Music. I think I have YouTube streaming as part of YouTube's premium and Amazon's streaming, but I never use either of those. It's mostly Spotify for me. TIDAL has had its own share of controversy and I avoid them. The best streaming service in my opinion was MOG, which was purchased by Beats and then became part of Apple when they purchased Beats. Their algorithm would suggest songs that I like more so than any other service.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Yeah, I used to make my living touring and recording and I had to hang that hat up and make a career change in my mid 30s. My options were to quit or try my luck at being a mercenary playing music I wouldn't like or have a hand in writing. I opted for the former and went back into the trades, which immediately was a big boost in salary. It's a bummer.

I have no regrets over my time spent as a professional touring musician. In fact, running a business (such that it was) set me up for success later in life when I chose to go out on my own in the world of finance. What in really interesting is out of 6 musicians that were in the band all but one either went into finance, or went on to started business ventures.

Back in 1974, I on tour sitting in a coffee shop in Davenport Iowa with our guitar player. The TV above the counter had the news on. The first news item? "The Dow Jones closed today at 714 today, the lowest point in 10 years." I turned to Gordo and said we should sell every piece of musical equipment we own and invest it in the market. But sadly while life gives us the the ability to make a unlimited amount of decisions , we do have to live with the consequences of not taking opportunities, and this was one of many I've missed along the way.

I turned out to be a financial advisor, and Gordo went on through his career in academia and retired as the provost of finance at a state university and, our lead singer retired as a managing partner with Edward Jones.

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

Spotify sucks, even when you pay the $12.00. it----just----spins---- and ---- spins--- Waiting for it to load up. Bandcamp is what I have been finding most good punk on. The guys at my shop swear by Tidal, but I don't need all that jazz. Honestly, I find the best stuff on Radio garden----if I like it, I look it up on bandcamp.

 

[Marc DLarosa]

I'm putting off buying a new car because I can't find one with a CD player...

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I just gave in and went to upgrade my home listening scenario.
The current situation is pretty 90's - I have a turntable and CD player connected to amp and cabs. I've also used a Raspberry Pi with my collection of MP3's, but that broke down and when I set it up anew, the app used felt terrible and I lost traction to pull on through, setting it up again with a different OS.
I just scored a black deal on a Bluesound Node.

However, the convenience of having a streaming service playing over that system has finally gotten to me. I am a dinosaur in that regard. I buy my MP3 albums on bandcamp or order the CD from anything but amazon - making sure as much of my money arrives with the artist as possible.

Which brings me to the question: If I was to sign my soul to the devil, is there a service that is better in that regard than Spotify or Deezer?
The regard being paying money to artists.

I have no recommendation. I use Apple Music because my girlfriend has long had it that predated our relationship, and my phone is part of the "family account" and while Apple Music certainly doesn't have everything, it has a LOT of things, and actually has been incredibly useful to me for building multiple band setlists and universes of their music without me going to the computer, building setlists from CD that I've imported into iTunes, and then syncing my phone for EVERY band, and EVERY show. Talk about tedium in days and weeks where I need to spend the least amount of time on the administrative stuff, and as much time as possible learning and doing music, and all the other things life requires.

One thing I STILL do, is I purchase CDs from the ECM Records label. I'm not saying I never listen to their music on Apple Music, but also I DO purchase their CDs. Those are the only CDs I purchase now. I want their physical product, which includes the packaging and booklet/liner stuff.

That's all I have to add at this time.

 

[Kerem Koseoglu]

YouTube Premium works best for me. Videos without ads + music streaming in the same package. Plus, I can build band playlists including live performances not available as albums - indicating "That's the version we are going to play".

 

[logdrum]

All streaming services massively devalue music. There's no way around it. Think about it like this: if you spend $20 for a CD with 12 songs on it, that's like $1.60 a song. That's already pretty slim pickings for an artist. Now take your typical Spotify account which cost $12 a month and get you millions of songs. It essentially devalues recorded compositions to the point that they're worthless. That's where we're at with music today as a career. It's essentially a worthless endeavor that pays little to no dividends for the actual artist.

Some of us do like to support artists - specially unknown ones. I listen to new avant garde jazz artists mainly and I used the streaming to sample their releases and then either buy their CDs or buy their MP3s.

If they are bit of a big name, I buy CDs or LPs if they are really special, like Pat Metheney when I attend his shows. Small unknown - best to attend their shows, buy CDs in the show so they get maximum profit.
The truck I am getting to replace my totalled one is also a 1997 with a cassette player and a CD player. The libraries locally are having book and CD sales

 

[Isaac_James]

Great article. Thank you for sharing.

View attachment 7086360

Interesting that the graphic here lists Rhapsody, which is what Napster was called for a while. But they've been Napster again since 2016!

 

[brianrost]

Every streaming service takes down albums, or changes them at their will. So if you want to hear an untouched version of a Beatles record (one that hasn't been touched by Giles Martin) you're screwed. You get unwanted remasters and remixes. Sometimes they're ok (I like Steven Wilson's remixes and also Visconti's remixes of some Bowie albums) but I'd like to have a choice. Sometimes the entire album disappears because of strange copyright regulations. My NAS always works, even without internet.

I bought a 96k/24 bit copy of Abbey Road at HD Tracks and was appalled at how much the sound of the original LP had been changed. I wrote about this at length in another thread a while ago. Yes, it sounded very open and detailed but it sounded completely different and the bass was way down in the mix. It would be nice to be able to just have someone remaster from the original analog mixes and getting it to sound as close to the vinyl as possible.

Spotify is weird in how albums can just disappear overnight. As a Captain Beefheart fan I was appalled to find out recently that Trout Mask Replica is no longer on Spotify but the rest of his catalog for Warner Brothers is still in print. There are playlists out there made by users that try to recreate albums that Spotify no longer has by locating each track on some other album. Then there are albums that are present but with one or more tracks missing. Early on I created a playlist of the four albums by Gryphon but a few months later when I went to listen to it again the albums were gone. Then a couple of years later, they were back. In some cases the same album may be available in multiple versions, each remastered at a different time so each sounds different.

To be totally honest I keep a lot of bootleg recordings stored on my NAS. These were downloaded from blogs, usually copied from rare old LPs rather than recent CDs, the majority are not in print anywhere on CD or LP and most of the downloads were done before streaming services were in existence. Most bloggers included scans of the original jackets (so you can read the liner notes) and text files of the personnel as well, something not available on Spotify for sure.

 

[logdrum]

IME as I listen to avant garde jazz/classical and experimental music is that AmaZon Music has a large catalog more than Apple Music.
Now to the OP. The trick for streaming is a good DAC, So from your PC, RasPi or Phone hard wired to the DAC. The DAC will have RCA stereo out and you connect that to your current receiver/amp and cabs

There is a company in the US called Schitt. I had their Modius but my son has borrowed it forever. So they have the Modi at 129 all the way to their flagship YggDrassil+ at 2300. I honestly think the BitFrost at 800 will be able to support the future ultra hidef Tidal and Amazon Music. The Modius can support the rates now or most of it

Now there are also really good Chi-fi (Chinese made HiFi) and I have had good luck with SMSL, FiIO and Loxjie. The good value is the FiIO K7 and they also have the older model K5. They are also headphone amps and can drive these high Ohm Headphone.
SMSL also has similar offerings but priced more. What you are looking for is MOQ and DSD support so you are future proofed and is the minimum investment for what you have now.

I have 2 listening areas and one of them has a tube power amp. I have ditched the old Marantz preamp and just happy with a SML preamp (with phono and RCAs) with a FIO DAC and I an old Mac Mini that is logged on to Amazon. In the living area where we have a TV and PC - I use a Loxjie A40 DAC A40 has phono preamp. Will take also RCA, optical and HDMI ARC. The 165w per channel and sub signal out is awesome. Small, power efficient and beats my old Denon Receiver. A lot of headroom since my Origin bookshelf's are only rated at 80 per Channel, I also have a Schitt tube preamp but have not wired it yet

 

[RichardW]

Anyone fall for Neil Young's Pono scam?