Double Bass Good EUB For Arco (Around $1k)?

[Matthew_84]

Apparently there is a Palatino in the Toronto L&M right now (and a few other L&M's nearby, just not my local one). I'm going to check one out after Boxing Day to see how it feels and sounds.

Question: How likley is it to try and bow on of these things in a store? I've never bowed before, so I suppose I'd have to grab a bow off the shelf, wipe some Rosin on it and go at it. I'd talk to a sales rep before doing so, but do you think they'd even allow this? I'd ask around to see if there any string players (violin, viola, cello, DB, etc) that work there, maybe they could do it for me. I'm not sure.

 

[Ortsom]

Bowing any upright is a normal way to play it, so if you can try it, you can bow it.
BUT... if you have never bowed, you better go with someone who has. Few people do it well right the first time (at least not me). And I do believe that DoubleMidi's judgement is that these (and other solid-body EUB's) do not bow so well, and I trust him on that. See the Palatino thread, I believe they put some thin rubber below the feet a.o. to improve arco. The standard/new one in the shop won't have that.

NS instruments have an an 'arco' setting in the pickup system.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

I know next to nothing about electric uprights but I have another option, maybe not great but something to think about. When I lived in an apartment with thin walls and people in every direction of me I would use a rubber practice mute and stuff the f-holes with towels on my acoustic upright. Now that maybe still too loud for you depending on your situation but something to consider, being that you could get a nice shen in the price range you mentioned and it may benefit you to play on a "real" bass, even muffled if you want to play classical.

 

[Matthew_84]

I know next to nothing about electric uprights but I have another option, maybe not great but something to think about. When I lived in an apartment with thin walls and people in every direction of me I would use a rubber practice mute and stuff the f-holes with towels on my acoustic upright. Now that maybe still too loud for you depending on your situation but something to consider, being that you could get a nice shen in the price range you mentioned and it may benefit you to play on a "real" bass, even muffled if you want to play classical.

Thanks for the tips. I hadn't thought about blocking the F holes.

Ultimately, I just want something very quiet. I would like to be able to get something that I could bow and be unheard from a couple of rooms away, even in the same apartment.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

Thanks for the tips. I hadn't thought about blocking the F holes.

Ultimately, I just want something very quiet. I would like to be able to get something that I could bow and be unheard from a couple of rooms away, even in the same apartment.

Yeah I'm not 100% if that would work for what you need then, maybe if you know anyone who has an upright you could try it, but maybe a EUB is the best thing for your situation.

 

[Matthew_84]

Yeah I'm not 100% if that would work for what you need then, maybe if you know anyone who has an upright you could try it, but maybe a EUB is the best thing for your situation.

Yeah, I think so too. Even Eminence's seem to produce a fairly loud sound when unplugged. I'll likely need a solid body EUB.

I would love to compare a Palatino and an NXT side by side... I'll check on L&M's website, I doubt it, but there may be a location that has both.

I wish I could get an acoustic DB. I know I would prefer it, but I also know it would sit collecting dust with me unable to practice it. At least with an EUB I could at least play it and learn the ropes.

That's also why I don't want to spend so much... One day, I will hopefully be able to get an acoustic DB, and when/if I do, I'd rather put more money into that.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Even solid body EUBs can sound fairly loud played arco at 2am. A heavy rubber practice mute will reduce that. In my experience a mute won't make an acoustic DB quiet enough not to wake people up.

 

[Tom Lane]

Even solid body EUBs can sound fairly loud played arco at 2am. A heavy rubber practice mute will reduce that. In my experience a mute won't make an acoustic DB quiet enough not to wake people up.

Would it even be worth it to try to start learning arco using a practice mute? Wouldn't it remove so much of the nuance the student is trying to identify and control? The OP might be better off buying a double bass and busking, at least he wouldn't be annoying the family and neighbors.

 

[Ortsom]

When I was a student, for some time I lived next door to a trumpet player. He was also in a brass band that practised on Saturday morning, and prior to going there he always wanted to practise his embouchure a bit. One Friday night, me & his neighbour from the other side came home from a party, and of course we realised this particular issue. We decided to enter his room and 'mislay' his trumpet. But... we failed miserably and woke him up, possibly because we weren't steady enough (and maybe it was the giggling). So it turned out to be a short night anyway.

Don't get me wrong, we had a lot of time for each other & also played quite a bit together (he also played guitar). At the time I had a normal DB, EUB, cello, EBG and a heavy Peavey combo amp, so from time to time we heard each other. In the same house we also had another guitar player, a French horn, a clarinet & 2x piano player (and a piano in the kitchen - dare I mention 'kitchen sessions'...), so that might not be quite your setting. Nevertheless, I guess with a solidbody you should be OK (maybe some carpet on the wall, and a bit of give & take), after all, Yamaha doesn't call them 'silent' for nothing.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Most of the solid body sound transmits through the endpin to the neighbors. A plate with some medium to soft foam beneath might decouple the bass from the floor.
Stuffing the f-holes completely does wonders to an acoustic upright, a practice damper and you can probably bow as silent as the solid body, but with some drawbacks in the bowing feel (but not worse than bowing a solid body, I think).

In the British basschat.co.uk forum they talked about making f-hole dampers with foam some years ago. One just slightly wider than the f-hole that gets stuffed inside and one about a centimeter larger that sits on the top so that the smaller one doesn't fall inside. Both glued together, of course. Use closed foam to get the larger damping, open foam lets some air through.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Would it even be worth it to try to start learning arco using a practice mute? Wouldn't it remove so much of the nuance the student is trying to identify and control?

You're probably right....but then trying to learn the bow on an unmuted solid body EUB will impede so much of that nuance to begin with that using a mute might not matter so much. About all the OP is really going to get trying to use an EUB to learn the DB is a start on playing in tune.

He's taking his first steps toward the realization that you don't get very far attempting to bend the double bass to your life. You change your life to accommodate the double bass. But he is taking those first steps and that's really what's important.

 

[Matthew_84]

Most of the solid body sound transmits through the endpin to the neighbors. A plate with some medium to soft foam beneath might decouple the bass from the floor.
Stuffing the f-holes completely does wonders to an acoustic upright, a practice damper and you can probably bow as silent as the solid body, but with some drawbacks in the bowing feel (but not worse than bowing a solid body, I think).

In the British basschat.co.uk forum they talked about making f-hole dampers with foam some years ago. One just slightly wider than the f-hole that gets stuffed inside and one about a centimeter larger that sits on the top so that the smaller one doesn't fall inside. Both glued together, of course. Use closed foam to get the larger damping, open foam lets some air through.

Thanks, I may just get an acoustic DB and mute it as much as possible. I need to really look into this to see what's the best option for me.

 

[Tom Lane]

@Jeff Bonny makes an excellent point. If your goal is to begin to learn arco then your requirements are different now than later. I can tell you that I've owned an Eminence and still own an NS Designs Omni bass and both are loud enough for me to practice with in a hotel room during the day without complaint. They are both loud enough for me to play along with my laptop speakers, maybe the volume of a medium volume tv. I was able to descern acurate pitch and hear some dynamics but it was limited. So, perhaps a used Yamaha silent bass might be a better choice for you and you should plan on spending $2.5 to $3K rather than $1K

 

[Ortsom]

Just 2 more considerations:

• It's not a real DB, but a solid body EUB can be played with headphones.
• There is this isolation foam for water piping, you can stuff pieces of that in the f-holes. It damps (and lowers the A0), but the instrument stays audible, and might still bother sensitive neighbours.

DM's tip on putting the pin on some ply with foam below is good, and Jeff too is right: a DB will change your life.

 

[Matthew_84]

I appreciate everyone's help in this thread.

At this point, I think the best idea is to find a DB instructor who ones both a DB and a solid body EUB and try to see if any of them are willing to mute their DB with the various tactics mentioned and see which one's louder and what the trade-offs are.

Thanks guys.

 

[VaBeachTom]

For $1000ish you're more shopping for least crappy than good. I've played a lot of EUBs and nothing to recommend under $2K used comes to mind....so few balance like a DB and sound good arco at any price.

I also would not completely rule out instruments on tripod stands. Those feel more like playing a DB sitting than any EUB on an endpin will ever feel like a playing a DB standing. I completely understand why it's not your preference but if say a Czech made NS Design bass came your way for $1500 you'd be nuts to pass on it.

For $1000ish you're more shopping for least crappy than good. I've played a lot of EUBs and nothing to recommend under $2K used comes to mind....so few balance like a DB and sound good arco at any price.

I also would not completely rule out instruments on tripod stands. Those feel more like playing a DB sitting than any EUB on an endpin will ever feel like a playing a DB standing. I completely understand why it's not your preference but if say a Czech made NS Design bass came your way for $1500 you'd be nuts to pass on it.

For $1000ish you're more shopping for least crappy than good. I've played a lot of EUBs and nothing to recommend under $2K used comes to mind....so few balance like a DB and sound good arco at any price.

I also would not completely rule out instruments on tripod stands. Those feel more like playing a DB sitting than any EUB on an endpin will ever feel like a playing a DB standing. I completely understand why it's not your preference but if say a Czech made NS Design bass came your way for $1500 you'd be nuts to pass on it.

Would you recommend this model

For $1000ish you're more shopping for least crappy than good. I've played a lot of EUBs and nothing to recommend under $2K used comes to mind....so few balance like a DB and sound good arco at any price.

I also would not completely rule out instruments on tripod stands. Those feel more like playing a DB sitting than any EUB on an endpin will ever feel like a playing a DB standing. I completely understand why it's not your preference but if say a Czech made NS Design bass came your way for $1500 you'd be nuts to pass on it.

I'm considering this model
SPECIAL_EDITION_GOLLIHUR_EXCLUSIVE_NXT_TRADITIONAL_BASS_BY_NS_DESIGN_4_STRING_PASSIVE.html
It has upgraded strings and tuners, $1600. Would you recommend this for jazz standards, blues, minimal arco play?

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

No. The NS basses have nothing in common with a double bass. I happen to think Ned's brilliant, but he's out of his depth designing EUBs.

Full disclosure: I'm friendly with the Gollihurs and they employ a good friend of mine.

 

[Tom Lane]

No. The NS basses have nothing in common with a double bass.

Nothing in common? Over-stating over-simplification. For the OPs sake, you, IMO, should elaborate. Clearly, they have SOMETHING in common. Sorry... pet peeve of mine. If we offer advice like this... we're not fully contributing.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Fine. They're both made of wood and their strings are usually tuned to the same pitches.

Lesson over.

 

[Tom Lane]

Fine. They're both made of wood and their strings are usually tuned to the same pitches.

Lesson over.

You're better than that. So many great posts over the years... so very knowledgeable. I find it hard to believe that you're that misinformed... an axe to grind? Ah, that would explain it. Ned's an a$$?