Graphic EQ equipment question

[topper]

I'm stepping up my band's PA setup from a simple 8 channel Mackie PA head to a bigger mixer, with separate power amp, etc.

I picked up a mixer I like (Yamaha MG166CX), it's only shortfall is that it has no graphic EQ built in.

I plan to run my mains in stereo but I'm lazy. So I'd really like a graphic eq that will take a stereo signal and return a stereo signal, but won't make me mess with two different sets of eq sliders.

I mean am I really ever going to eq the left main differently than the right? I really don't see a scenario where I'd do that. But I can really easily imagine encountering some feedback mid performance and trying to reach over and fumble with two different sets of sliders to eliminate the feedback while I'm still trying to at least hold down root notes on my bass, tripping over my shoe laces and doing a face plant off the side of the stage. So yeah...

I've only come across one eq that looks like it does this. The Behringer FBQ800 is a little 9 band stereo graphic eq with just one set of eq sliders.

It looks kind of cheap. I've got nothing against Behringer and I sure don't mind "inexpensive" but the reviews say it's all plastic and I don't see it holding up to the rigors of gigging.

Is there anything else out there that will do this?

 

[Geri O]

Dusting off my memory of analog EQs, I don't recall there ever being one that was stereo, but was controlled by one set of faders. Using stereo faders would make for an unwieldy package. The closest things you might come across is an Ashly Protea digital EQ. Those are 4-channel graphs that you can link 2 channels together to accomplish what you need. However, on the front panel, there's no physical faders. The faders are virtual on the screen and you must select the frequency to adjust and toggle it up or down as needed. That's still pretty clumsy for a bassist.

We had a couple of dozen of the Protea EQs back in the analog days, but they are gather dust now in a corner of the shop, along with 4 big analog consoles that haven't seen daylight in 5-6 years now.

 

[WayneP]

But I can really easily imagine encountering some feedback mid performance and trying to reach over and fumble with two different sets of sliders to eliminate the feedback…

That’s a very good reason why stereo systems should not be used in PA systems. I mean, how to you know which channel is feeding back to begin with? I’ve been to shows with the band mixed in stereo, and couldn’t hear lead guitar solos because I was sitting on the wrong side of the room. Basically, it’s wonderful for the lucky few in the “sweet spot,” but crap for everyone else.

Go mono and then you can use any graphic EQ you want.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
Pedulla Club #45

 

[topper]

It's more for stereo effects on guitar and keys than panning individual instruments left or right.

 

[Geri O]

That’s a very good reason why stereo systems should not be used in PA systems. I mean, how to you know which channel is feeding back to begin with? I’ve been to shows with the band mixed in stereo, and couldn’t hear lead guitar solos because I was sitting on the wrong side of the room. Basically, it’s wonderful for the lucky few in the “sweet spot,” but crap for everyone else.

Go mono and then you can use any graphic EQ you want.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
Pedulla Club #45

Several thousand sound guys seem to have missed this point...

Seriously, though, with regard to the stereo-mono thing with large PAs, the original idea of stereo PAs was copped from stereo records and as with a lot those early records, some really bad and sometimes hilarious results were foisted on an unsuspecting audience.

I do like stereo for the sense of stereo reverb and stereo instruments for the spread of the sound. I used to see live mixes all the time with crazy panning, mostly toms and overheads. I never panned instruments for the very good reason you state above. And I can certainly do a live mix mono, no doubt. I've seen band guys melt down because the venue or the client couldn't allow for a dead-on-center mix position, unfortunately having to finally tell these guys "This is your mix position today. If you can't mix from here, I can". Of course, these are the same guys that I tell "you aren't curing cancer and you aren't feeding starving children. You are just a sound guy. Do your job, or someone else will"

 

[walterw]

I'd really like a graphic eq that will take a stereo signal and return a stereo signal, but won't make me mess with two different sets of eq sliders.

that does seem like an obvious idea that's oddly absent from the market, but at this point it's almost irrelevant; with the universal adoption of digital mixers this is like coming up with an improved buggywhip in 1920.

pretty much any digital mixer you find, even the cheap ones, will have stereo LR outs but a single master EQ.

 

[topper]

I looked at some of the tablet based digital mixers and decided against them for similar reasons. They have lots of advantages, but look hard to run while performing. To adjust basic things like monitor sends requires navigating through a couple screens screens (then back out again). It looked like it'd be great for mixing if that's all you're doing, but difficult if you're trying to play at the same time.

Back to my question, i guess this little Behringer is it if I really want stereo eq with a single set of sliders.

 

[el murdoque]

Well, to the Mono vs. Stereo thing:
You will have some stereo elements whatever you do, unless you use a single speaker. The PA cabs on the left and the ones on the right have seperate poweramps - or one stereo one.
The speakers' placement in the room is different. Maybe there is a wall to the right side and an open space to the left.
And maybe there is a certain frequency that creates feedback because the speaker on the left is beaming a certain frequency in one of the microphones. The elegant solution would obviously be to pull down that frequency on as little cabinets as possible instead of all of them.

 

[jimfist]

I looked at some of the tablet based digital mixers and decided against them for similar reasons. They have lots of advantages, but look hard to run while performing. To adjust basic things like monitor sends requires navigating through a couple screens screens (then back out again). It looked like it'd be great for mixing if that's all you're doing, but difficult if you're trying to play at the same time.

Back to my question, i guess this little Behringer is it if I really want stereo eq with a single set of sliders.

If you have any kind of smart phone or cheap tablet, you could buy a Behringer XR12 for the cost ($249) of a decent quality analog EQ, and insert it for use only as the Mains EQ. Visual RTA to boot. You could also get clever and have a couple of channels of insert processing, or use it for effects busses. Really, a lot of creative things and extra routing options are possible, and you may find you like it enough to dive in deeper.

And because you're using it as an added outboard piece of gear, you're still doing all of your fundamental mixing with your analog console.

Just a thought.

 

[walterw]

To adjust basic things like monitor sends requires navigating through a couple screens screens (then back out again).

Quite the opposite. You could use the main screen to mix out front and people can adjust their own monitors with their phone!

 

[topper]

Hmmm... i didn't realize you can pair more than one device to it. That is pretty slick.

 

[s0c9]

Hmmm... i didn't realize you can pair more than one device to it. That is pretty slick.

Absolutely you can.. we run at least SEVEN (7) devices against our X32's at every gig. I think there's an upper limit - such as 2 connections with FULL (FOH) access and 20 connections running IEM mixes. We're also using an external dual-band router (but only using 5Ghz) to get away from the 2.4Ghz clutter at venues. Can't beat that for $125 (router and cat5 cables).

 

[topper]

So they just get access to an aux bus or something?

 

[walterw]

So they just get access to an aux bus or something?

exactly. there are specific simplified "monitor mix" or "Q" apps for all these boards, made just for phones. most models of boards can also be set up to "lock out" the individual phones or tablets so each one can only access the one monitor mix it's supposed to.

this setup is ideal for in-ears; there's still a risk when letting clueless players control loud wedges, something about chimpanzees and loaded pistols, but done right it's soo much easier than having the players all waving their arms at you to change something in their mix while you're trying to get it right out front.