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Graphic EQ tone question.

M

Mooch

Jan 1, 2009
523
2
MN
www.facebook.com
#1
Hey all, I guess I'm at a crossroads. I'm not sure if anyone else has come to this point but at practice last night I plugged in my bass and was getting ready to go.

Well I had not changed any setting on my amp or bass and pretty much always played with the same tone setting. Lots of bass, little to no mid, and a lot of treble.

We play metal and are tuned to drop B. Now while I always loved my sound it all of a sudden just sounded dead to me.

With all that said and people personal preferance on how bass should sound and all that I've been looking around the net for some ideas on how to get a better sound for the music and tuning we play. I keep running into "a lot of low mids".

Right now my graphic eq is a "smiley face" the mids aren't all the way down but I'm curious is having "a lot of low mids" mean I should maybe try a "frowny" face on my eq?

What do other low tuned, active, metal bassists do. My plan is to buy a sansamp soon but for overall tone that growls what do people do?

Thanks for any insight into this guys.
 
#2
well if your sound has always worked before and all of a sudden it didn't, it could have been the room, your hearing changing on you through ear fatigue or hearing damage, or you realized that you scooped your sound right out of the mix.

i would add some low mids and some high mids as well. that will bring out more tone. it can sound a little boxy by itself, but in a mix, especially a low tuned band where the guitars put a lot of bass on their guitars, you can definitely hear the bass better.
 
#6
I have had a similar experience where a particular EQ setting works for one gig and then sounds totally bum at the next. There are a lot of things at play here obviously including acoustics of the facility etc... In this complex and frustrating game of bass EQ and tone, I have come to realise that one size does not fit all. I have learned to quickly identify what is missing in the mix at sound check and where to make the adjustments on my EQ to correct things again. One thing I can say for sure is that a 'smiley face' on the EQ has never worked for me. A 'slight frown' gives me the fat warm sweet spot that is the mix of tonal character for definition and bottom end for power and punch that is what makes me audible in the mix without being loud as hell. PS, what sounds good solo does not always sound good in the mix...
 
#7
+1 to changing your strings. That's oftentimes what's needed.

And yeah, the smiley face eq will get lost in most mixes, especially with downtuned guitars who, I assume, have a lot of bass in their tone. Most of the tone and timbre is in the mids and yes, "bedroom" or "solo" tone usually gets lost in the other instruments and tone that sits nice in the mix usually sounds a little midrangey/bass shy on it's own.
 
#8
Change your strings.

Also, before you do any adjusting, see what you sound like just with the amp set neutral.

I play metal, both in EADG and BEAD tunings, and I use a significant mid boost. Your situation may differ, however. Also, I play a passive instrument, and have it somewhat overdriven.
 
#9
This thread may be useful: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f21/d...-make-fingerstyle-playing-heard-metal-378173/

The thread title says it's about fingerstyle playing, but alot of the tone aspect will get your head right on what to listen for in the mix, pick or fingers.

Something else to consider is learning up on your guitards setup and how he uses it. I always look at the tone settings on his pedals and amp to get a handle on what he's boosting (usually lows and highs) and cutting (mids, starting to see a pattern here?). Whatever he cuts I boost and vice versa. It doesn't make for a great solo tone, but I'm not a solo bassist.
 
#10
I use have that as my EQ settings, we played in drop C so close to what you're dealing with. Try boosting your high mids a tad it will give you a little bit better presence, boosting low mids would just make you drown in with your guitars. A sansamp will help quite a bit, I know that Mike D'Antonio from Killswitch runs his bass and amp EQ flat and then does his EQing from his sansamp. I run the sansamp as well but also run somewhat of a "smiley face" EQ.
 
#11
Smiley face EQ in metal is fail (or just a common mistake by beginners). It'll sound nice and round by yourself in your bedroom but all you'll do is add mud to the mix and no one in the audience will be able to hear a note your are playing unless it's solo. Don't be another buried in the mix metal bassist... I've found these types of cats are comfortable hiding their tone because they don't want it to be obvious they can't "keep up."

Start here:

Lowest bass (40-80hz) = slightly cut
Low mids (100-250 hz, 150-180 ideally) = boost here, think of this as the new "bass"
Mids (~500hz) = flat or boost for presence
High mids (~1-3k) = boost this instead of treble/highs. This is where high gain guitars have a ton of bite but also where a lot of your articulation lies
Highs = flat, slightly cut

With the lowest bass freqs cut or flat, you can crank your master volume more. If your amp has Gain that grits up, grit it up slightly. If it sounds harsh by itself or in your bedroom, it will sound a lot more mellow in the mix so you kind of overcompensate on mid presence to get a normal tone. OD makes your sound more appreciable/audible in the mix without having to increase the volume.
 
#12
Sartori said:
Change your strings.

Also, before you do any adjusting, see what you sound like just with the amp set neutral.

I play metal, both in EADG and BEAD tunings, and I use a significant mid boost. Your situation may differ, however. Also, I play a passive instrument, and have it somewhat overdriven.
Click to expand...

Also what I thought, same room, same settings etc. but the string age and loose their bite.
 
#13
Are you using the STL600 in your sig?

That head has a ton of lows, so I'd suggest:

Volume: 12:00
Gain: 12:00
Bass: 9:00
Mids: 1:00-2:00
Mid Frequency: Start with 600
Treble: 12:00-1:00
master: To taste

I've got a 900. I found that if I had the bass set to anything higher than 10:00 that I was get lost in the mix pretty easily. Just remember, what sounds good on it's own doesn't necessarily sound good in a mix.

Have you see the Streamliner Tone Primer thread yet?
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/genz-streamliner-600-900-tone-control-primer-813663/

It's a very simple amp with complicated tone controls.

If you're not using the STL600, you can disregard most of this...but boost those mids and turn the bass down!
 
#14
I joined another loud band with two guitarists who [are idiots for thinking this but] think that scooped guitar sounds better. I wholly disagree and shoot their tone full of mids every practice. I've actually had to cut my own high mids back because I was spanking them sonically and sticking out like a sore thumb.

My usual "metal" tone is a clean/dirty blend with the dirty being a mild overdrive in parallel to the clean. As much scoop as I use is the natural scooped tone of a two pickup bass (Explorer, Ric, J, etc). I do the same with single pickup basses too.

What's most important to me cutting through? That overdrive boosts a lot of good frequencies and helps to add more "presence" (bright high end) to my sound, especially if I have new strings. I don't cut the mids so I'm also present in that frequency band. I love using new sets of Roto 66 Drop Zones for this stuff.
 
#15
Lemme reinforce everybody's point with a counter-example:

I play bass in a rock (as opposed to metal) band. The two guitar players are using smaller tube combos or 2x12 setups, an orange and a Marshall dsl. These amps have a more focused, mid-rangy tone so my sound, which is primarily a sansamp bass driver into a power amp, is just right, because it does have a bit of mid-scoop.

My bass fills up the mix, stays out of the way of the guitars and vocals, and still has enough attack and grind to let me hear the notes.

It's still all about not fighting for the same frequencies as your band mates.
 
#16
walterw said:
Lemme reinforce everybody's point with a counter-example:

I play bass in a rock (as opposed to metal) band. The two guitar players are using smaller tube combos or 2x12 setups, an orange and a Marshall dsl. These amps have a more focused, mid-rangy tone so my sound, which is primarily a sansamp bass driver into a power amp, is just right, because it does have a bit of mid-scoop.

My bass fills up the mix, stays out of the way of the guitars and vocals, and still has enough attack and grind to let me hear the notes.

It's still all about not fighting for the same frequencies as your band mates.
Click to expand...

That approach works with good guitar players.;)

When you're dealing with wankers who use their bass-boosted, scooped-metal bedroom tone in a band mix, you either leave the band or slay them with mids.
 
#18
.
I used to play with similar EQ settings to you Mooch, sort of smiley face pattern.

I was convinced this was the sound I needed and always wondered why I had to really push my rig in order to be heard in my band.

Since frequenting TB I have been "converted", I now embrace mids (within reason) and have fallen in love with my new tone. I am now able to be easily heard above the din of two Marshall playing guitarists!

Its been said many times before here: Mids are your friends.

Greg
 
#19
chaosMK said:
Smiley face EQ in metal is fail (or just a common mistake by beginners). It'll sound nice and round by yourself in your bedroom but all you'll do is add mud to the mix and no one in the audience will be able to hear a note your are playing unless it's solo. Don't be another buried in the mix metal bassist... I've found these types of cats are comfortable hiding their tone because they don't want it to be obvious they can't "keep up."

Start here:

Lowest bass (40-80hz) = slightly cut
Low mids (100-250 hz, 150-180 ideally) = boost here, think of this as the new "bass"
Mids (~500hz) = flat or boost for presence
High mids (~1-3k) = boost this instead of treble/highs. This is where high gain guitars have a ton of bite but also where a lot of your articulation lies
Highs = flat, slightly cut

With the lowest bass freqs cut or flat, you can crank your master volume more. If your amp has Gain that grits up, grit it up slightly. If it sounds harsh by itself or in your bedroom, it will sound a lot more mellow in the mix so you kind of overcompensate on mid presence to get a normal tone. OD makes your sound more appreciable/audible in the mix without having to increase the volume.
Click to expand...


I can't quite agree with this, I wouldn't want to cut or leave 40-80hz flat, that is part of your bass frequency, and well you're a bass player. I agree to boost the 100-150hz and the 1k-3khz, you don't want a complete smiley face, but you don't want to cut your bass. I do agree with the blend of overdrive in with a clean sound, it colors your tone and adds a bit more presence without having the harsh treble.
 

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