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Double Bass Graphite Double Bass bridge

#23
Purpleheart can be a pretty wood; I have some in the next room I've sliced for electric bass fingerboards and other details. The luthier who built electric basses and an ABG for me, Karl Hoyt, has built EUBs using Purpleheart for the fingerboards, and there's a stripe in the three piece neck of my ABG.

It would be a good URB fingerboard wood, though I'm not sure what sort of bass finish would blend with it- my opinion is that it would have to be a very light golden maple, or perhaps another non-traditional color. It's kind of like the beautiful striped ebony fingerboard on my EUB; it had originally been on an orchestral, conventionally stained URB, and I quite understand why it had been stained black.

All assessments are based on my personal color preferences and eyesight. YMMV
 
#24
Yeah, I wonder how it would look on my Juzek, which is kind of a yellow over brown varnish. I 'll bet it would look nice...take a look at the link and tell me what you think. I think when I do get another fingerboard, I'm also going to get a new bridge, tailpiece, and nut and convert it back to its original 5 string condition.

Monte

Link Removed
 
#26
Link Removed is Acacia's page for purpleheart, but that isn't the color of the purpleheart I have at all.

Closer to what I have is [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

and even better is Invalid Link Removed which describes it though it is a small example

This example would harmonize better with your bass: http://www.wood-worker.com/woods/purplehe.htm

And if you're not sick of it yet: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

As mentioned, the finish can help to darken it a bit, and there are obviously different flavors of purpleheart.

The instrument I'm using it on will have a light golden maple body much like my EUB.
 
#28
I inquired with Stephen of Moses about the use of hide glue, and he responded with some interesting facts:

Hyde glue is inherently weak, which allows for easy removal of wood fingerboards needing periodic replacement due to wear. If I was a wood builder, who experienced strings grinding away wood boards over and over again, I believe that I would have some pause for thought too. Anyway, this is why wood builder's like it. I also acknowledge that tradition plays a dominant role in preferences.

We have not experienced any wear on our graphite boards that have been used for electric bass application with roundwound strings for 20 years. It will be an immensely long time before a flatwound upright string could possibly need replacing. A more durable adhesive does make it more difficult to remove a board by heating and peeling. However, applying heat to an old wood neck is not only not really good for it, but also is a case in point for how hyde glue is not as stable as one would like. A better adhesive means that the stable graphite board will hold the neck from warping when the instrument heats up (and cools down) during transit and/or storage. At any rate, when we remove wood boards, we simply router fly-cut them right off, which leaves a totally flat, smooth surface with edges that are clean and sharp. In ths way any finish on the sides of the neck shaft are not disturbed and do not require touch-up.
 
#29
Originally posted by Bob Gollihur
I inquired with Stephen of Moses about the use of hide glue, and he responded with some interesting facts:

At any rate, when we remove wood boards, we simply router fly-cut them right off, which leaves a totally flat, smooth surface with edges that are clean and sharp. In ths way any finish on the sides of the neck shaft are not disturbed and do not require touch-up.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob

HMMMMM I think I like it Bob. What would a board for a five string cost?
My Kay M5 has position markers at every position,making this bass that much more special, could Moses replicate them?
 
#30
I will need some dimensions to compare to their board -- I know one is available for both five and six string basses, and their EUBs, and it isn't much more than the four string fingerboard.

As far as position markers, I don't know if they would do that or not, but I will inquire when I get the dimensions for them.
 
#31
Originally posted by Breitag


Hi Bob

HMMMMM I think I like it Bob. What would a board for a five string cost?
My Kay M5 has position markers at every position,making this bass that much more special, could Moses replicate them?
Click to expand...

Specs for those interested:

4st- nut: 1.75", body end: 3.50", length: 34.75"
5st- nut: 2.0625", body end: 3.625", length: 35.0"
 
#32
Hi
Sorry for my ignorance.
Let me go back to the graphite bridge.
I put Moses graphite bridge on my old Czech plywood with Thomastic Spirocore Orchestra for 4 months (the string hight 5.5 mm - 9 mm) . Good focus and clearity. I can say that it is better than my previous bridge.

But I notice that, the sound of my bass is thinner , especially the open G. Compare when using my previous wood bridge.
Is it possible to change gut string or gut-like to get the thicker sound?

Thank you
Pongsak
Bangkok, Thailand
 
#36
Bob:

So what was the verdict on the Moses Bridge?????

I've tried about five different times to make contact with the folks over there- via both email and phone; I even called when I was in town and wanted to stop by to give the folks here a report.

I sent pretty detailed letters explaining what I was looking for, what I was hoping to achieve with their product and going out of my way to mention my background and experience as a luthier, player, writer AND the fact that while almost every single other luthier and player that I've spoken to has heard of their bridges, not one of them had ever seen one in person or installed one. I also mentioned that nobody here at TB seemed to know anything about them and I wanted to get one for a review both here and in a couple of magazines to get the word out on them.

After several months of no response, one day on a whim I wrote a very sarcastic note to their website contact address asking if they were even still in business or if anyone there answered their emails. A couple of days later I finally got a response that basically said who are you and what do you want....

I'm still curious about their product, but given that experience, I don't think I'll ever send any money there expecting a response.

I understand the difficulties of running a small business, but it is pretty difficult to keep it going when you never respond to customers.

Bob, tell me a happy story and restore my faith in humanity and funny looking bridges again...

j.
 
#37
Bob, I just completed an old German carved and shipped it to it's new owner in Wyoming.
I have had the bass for about 5 years. It was the first old carved that I have owned. I always loved the finger board. It was the prettiest, smoothest that I have ever seen. When I restored the bass which included a lot of work on the top, the finger board needed some dressing- It was h*** trying to plane it (btw-that's when I discovered that it was graphite.) My love turned to hate, because the more I worked on it the worse it looked. These holes kept appearing as I planed the board. It was a nightmare. I guess they were air pockets, or something. I finally got it looking decent with graphite dust mixed with pore filler, and boiled linseed oil.
Just my opinion, but I would never spend money for a graphite board. I am intrigued, however, with the bridge and will definately try one.

ALSO*** AND THIS IS A BIG ALSO-gluing a graphite board to maple---well, the luthier who installed it originally, glued a thin slice of something onto the bottom of the graphite (I think it was maple glued to the bottom of the board with max strength epoxy) Then he used hide glue to put the neck and the board together which would make the board possible to remove. I'm sure that this shim was not your usual raise the board shim but was there to facilitate gluing the board onto the neck. No doubt, there are some who have had a better experience with graphite boards because of their knowledge and experience, but they ain't for me.
 
#38
Aha, a revival of a very old thread. I had the Moses graphite bridge on my Juzek for about three years, still have it. I found it added some brightness and perhaps a little immediacy to the sound, but it wasn't really something I needed from the instrument, and off it came. I suspect it would be something that could benefit a darker sounding instrument, and as we know, there are many ingredients that can affect a bass, but you never know which way until you try it.

One disadvantage is that, with no wing, it will rule out some pickups. Also, I tried the K&K Double Big Twin on it, that's the pickup that has transducers you stick to the top of the bridge. Unlike wood, which necessarily warms up the sound, the graphite was cold and the sound harsh. However, it would be interesting to hear a Full Circle in it.

I would think that the board you ran across was also a Moses-- you are correct. They were available with a piece of veneer on the back. He determined that the best mounting method was epoxy, as hide glue wasn't compatible, so the veneer was epoxied to present us with a hide glue friendly surface.

I haven't really dealt with Stephen for quite some time, though I've yakked with him periodically at NAMM in Anaheim. The graphite boards never really took off, and I'd heard of issues with them a few years ago, so I never revisited them.
 
#39
To revisit this old thread again for a moment....

I've had a Moses graphite finger board laying around for a few years and decided to try it out. First off the bass in question is an old 76 Engelhardt. I removed the old board and sanded the neck smooth. I then glued a 1/8 inch shim under the fingerboard to thicken up the neck a little, as those Engel necks are a little thin. My luthier then installed the neck.

The problems didn't accure untill he started to plain it. The neck came to me with what Moses says is "proper neck relief" I believe this is not the case. (1/4 inch in the middle of the board). After much frustration my luthier got it level with the proper ammount of relief. He had to take quite a bit off the nut end of the fingerboard because the cut on the under side of the fingerboard was cut so deep it only left about a 1/4 inch of fingerboard at the bottom. As he was plaining, small voids would arrise. I guess you would call them small air gaps in the fingerboard. No real big deal but he did come across a bigger one he had to fill with some super glue.

I have the bass back and it does play well. It has more growl than it did before. Similiar to my carved bass actually...But I can also get this fretless bass mwha that was not present before. I like the concept and the sound is good but I wish Moses had more quality control on their products. I hope the board never wears because my luthier said he saw the fiberous part of the board in the deeper void he filled, which will eliminate any future plaining. I have a gig with it tonight and I will report back about how it performed.
 

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