ground hum with nylon strings

[gillento]

I have a bass that has a nasty ground hum when I am using black nylon strings (LaBella in my case).
It has a Split Coil PU.

Is there a way of getting rid of this?

 

[gillento]

the bridge is top loading

 

[BlueTalon]

Did you have this bass with non-coated strings on it, and it didn't have this problem?

Have you checked to make sure the bridge is grounded?

 

[iiipopes]

First, I don't mean to be a forum Nazi, but it is bad form to post the same question more than once.

Here is my post on your other thread:

Yes. When you use nylon tapewound strings, you de-couple the strings from the bridge ground, and it leaves the entire bass open as an ungrounded antenna attracting all sorts of hum and electrostatic noise.

You will get a plethora of posts after this one that either disagree with me, or partially agree with me, or provide partial solutions, like shielding the cavity, which will work to one degree or another, but never completely remove the noise.

But after playing bass for forty years plus, and having tried all of the proffered solutions which you will see in other threads, and still playing nylon wrap strings, there are two real solutions:

1) On my custom half-fanned P/J, I have a chrome covered pickup that I anchor my thumb on and ground it like a bridge plate. This makes the bass essentially the same as when the fingers are in contact with conventional strings through the bridge ground. That provides enough shunting of the noise to function as it wears Fender nylon tapewound strings.

2) On my 5-string Ibby party band bass, I need it to be as low noise as possible since it feeds D.I. into a digital board, which shows every nit, flaw, wart and inconsistency of what is fed into it. So I went with full EMG actives replacement pickups on that bass, with their internal grounding and greater than 100dB noise floor. Since the installation instructions for EMG actives explicitly state to not use a bridge ground, then it doesn't matter what strings are used with those pickups; I use La Bella White Tapes on that bass.

And to add to the above: the ball ends don't matter. With the thickness of the nylon tape, there is still no metal touching the fingers to complete the body ground, and it will still hum and make noise. I have used nylon tape wounds with metal ball ends on both top load and string through body basses, and currently have one of each, and from my extensive experience it doesn't matter.

Good luck!

 

[ofajen]

I think we need a sticky just on this. There is a lot of misunderstanding.

One thing I just learned and verified is that my body is actually the single biggest source of that noise in my passive basses, which is why most of it goes away when I'm connected via a conducting path to the output ground. Also, I discovered long ago that one very unglamorous but effective way to do that is attach a bare wire taped to the metal case of the instrument cable plug in the bass output jack and attach the other end of the bare wire around your wrist to maintain a conducting path.

Otto

 

[gillento]

Did you have this bass with non-coated strings on it, and it didn't have this problem?

Have you checked to make sure the bridge is grounded?

Yes, with full metal strings there is no such noise.

 

[Gorn]

Yes, with full metal strings there is no such noise.

@iiipopes gave the most comprehensive answer. The noise is unavoidable with nylon or most coated strings. You have to learn to live with it.

 

[CM63]

First, I don't mean to be a forum Nazi, but it is bad form to post the same question more than once.

Here is my post on your other thread:

Yes. When you use nylon tapewound strings, you de-couple the strings from the bridge ground, and it leaves the entire bass open as an ungrounded antenna attracting all sorts of hum and electrostatic noise.

You will get a plethora of posts after this one that either disagree with me, or partially agree with me, or provide partial solutions, like shielding the cavity, which will work to one degree or another, but never completely remove the noise.

But after playing bass for forty years plus, and having tried all of the proffered solutions which you will see in other threads, and still playing nylon wrap strings, there are two real solutions:

1) On my custom half-fanned P/J, I have a chrome covered pickup that I anchor my thumb on and ground it like a bridge plate. This makes the bass essentially the same as when the fingers are in contact with conventional strings through the bridge ground. That provides enough shunting of the noise to function as it wears Fender nylon tapewound strings.

2) On my 5-string Ibby party band bass, I need it to be as low noise as possible since it feeds D.I. into a digital board, which shows every nit, flaw, wart and inconsistency of what is fed into it. So I went with full EMG actives replacement pickups on that bass, with their internal grounding and greater than 100dB noise floor. Since the installation instructions for EMG actives explicitly state to not use a bridge ground, then it doesn't matter what strings are used with those pickups; I use La Bella White Tapes on that bass.

And to add to the above: the ball ends don't matter. With the thickness of the nylon tape, there is still no metal touching the fingers to complete the body ground, and it will still hum and make noise. I have used nylon tape wounds with metal ball ends on both top load and string through body basses, and currently have one of each, and from my extensive experience it doesn't matter.

Good luck!

Have you found any volume loss with active EMGs and nylon strings?
I am having serious drop.
I should add that these are the "Game Of Death" strings

 

[gillento]

Have you found any volume loss with active EMGs and nylon strings?
I am having serious drop.

Just experienced this with my Epiphone Jack Casady and its original PU.

 

[CM63]

Just experienced this with my Epiphone Jack Casady and its original PU.

My volume pots do not turn completely off either so it must be a problem with them, however I put thomastiks back on and have greater volume than with the nylons. Weird.
Thanks for your reply!

 

[ctmullins]

@iiipopes gave the most comprehensive answer. The noise is unavoidable with nylon or most coated strings. You have to learn to live with it.

I don't know. The noise can be mitigated through scrupulous shielding. My semi-hollow fretless has LaBella tapes and a wooden floating bridge. When I first put it together it buzzed like crazy. I added some shielding tape and it got a tiny bit better. I took an ohmmeter to the shielding and discovered that it wasn't conducting as well as it should. I solder-tacked the pieces of shielding tape to one another, made sure that the shielding measured as close to 0 ohms as possible at every point, and now it's nearly silent. Not truly silent, but acceptable for me.

If your instrument cavities are not shielded, shield em. If they are, measure the continuity, and improve it where you can. It might help.

 

[BlueTalon]

I added some shielding tape and it got a tiny bit better. I took an ohmmeter to the shielding and discovered that it wasn't conducting as well as it should. I solder-tacked the pieces of shielding tape to one another, made sure that the shielding measured as close to 0 ohms as possible at every point, and now it's nearly silent.

Soldering the shielding is always a good idea, but there is no good reason to use shielding tape that doesn't have conductive adhesive. It is inexpensive on ebay -- around $14 gets you enough tape to shield several basses.

 

[ctmullins]

Soldering the shielding is always a good idea, but there is no good reason to use shielding tape that doesn't have conductive adhesive. It is inexpensive on ebay -- around $14 gets you enough tape to shield several basses.

Not disagreeing, but the tape I used was from StewMac, and did feature conductive adhesive. It conducted, but not at 0 ohms.

 

[iiipopes]

Have you found any volume loss with active EMGs and nylon strings?
I am having serious drop.
I should add that these are the "Game Of Death" strings

No signal loss. Everything is great. Remember that EMG pickups are designed to be adjusted closer to the strings than many conventional passive pickups. Signal strength varies as the square of the distance from the pickup, not linearly. So a little adjustment closer to the strings should make a significant difference in output. And make sure you have the solderless plugs oriented properly and have a fresh battery. And make sure you raise the pickup another 7 thou or so to compensate for the metal part of the string being that much more above the pickup due to the thickness of the nylon wrap, which is, of course, non-magnetic.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Not disagreeing, but the tape I used was from StewMac, and did feature conductive adhesive. It conducted, but not at 0 ohms.

Protip: don't buy shielding supplies from Stew-Mac. Their tape is over-priced and their paint isn't a great product. I would second the suggestion of getting tape of Ebay (or Amazon) and I would recommend using MG Chemicals Supershield for paint. It is cheaper, more durable and offers a much better resistance.

 

[BlueTalon]

Not disagreeing, but the tape I used was from StewMac, and did feature conductive adhesive. It conducted, but not at 0 ohms.

That ebay stuff is thin and light, so I use multiple layers. When I shield, I always test it even before soldering, and I always get less than 1 ohm. I measure from distant points in the shielding, like the pickup route(s), top of bridge, end of jack, and tuners when it's strung up.

Not trying to take business from StewMac, but I recommend trying the ebay stuff before buying any more shielding from StewMac.

 

[CM63]

Great advice! It turns out that I wired the

No signal loss. Everything is great. Remember that EMG pickups are designed to be adjusted closer to the strings than many conventional passive pickups. Signal strength varies as the square of the distance from the pickup, not linearly. So a little adjustment closer to the strings should make a significant difference in output. And make sure you have the solderless plugs oriented properly and have a fresh battery. And make sure you raise the pickup another 7 thou or so to compensate for the metal part of the string being that much more above the pickup due to the thickness of the nylon wrap, which is, of course, non-magnetic.

Thanks so much- great advice! It turns out I wired the input plug wrong- DERP!

 

[Hopkins]

Protip: don't buy shielding supplies from Stew-Mac. Their tape is over-priced and their paint isn't a great product. I would second the suggestion of getting tape of Ebay (or Amazon) and I would recommend using MG Chemicals Supershield for paint. It is cheaper, more durable and offers a much better resistance.

+1 on the MG Chemicals Super Shield. I will never use anything else again.

 

[iiipopes]

I don't know. The noise can be mitigated through scrupulous shielding.

Or going with EMG Actives.

 

[bassbenj]

I think we need a sticky just on this. There is a lot of misunderstanding.

One thing I just learned and verified is that my body is actually the single biggest source of that noise in my passive basses, which is why most of it goes away when I'm connected via a conducting path to the output ground. Also, I discovered long ago that one very unglamorous but effective way to do that is attach a bare wire taped to the metal case of the instrument cable plug in the bass output jack and attach the other end of the bare wire around your wrist to maintain a conducting path.

Otto

Not recommended! Yes it works but the problem is that it connects YOU to ground and if you have a ground fault and contact some hot circuit, as the electricity tightens your muscles since you are not just touching ground you can't pull away. And that means you may die.

Grounded strings or grounded you are not necessary to remove hum. Best way is to get a proper shield job on the bass so it makes no difference if you are grounded or not. This is why some basses do not ground the bridge even with metallic strings because it's safer.