Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Guitarists trying to write your basslines..
- Thread starter ceruer
- Start date
I was asked to record bass lines for a music project headed up by a buddy of mine. He is a singer/song writer. The music is along the lines of "movie music" (not sure how else to describe it). The guy knows how I play and what I'm capable of, which is why I assume he asked me to play. After sending him three takes, each one progressively less tasteful, he finally sent me a recording of a bassline that consisted of eight notes of the root note, nothing more, telling me to play that. Since he already had it recorded, I just told him to use that, and I didn't waste any more of my time with that project.
- Sep 4, 2010
- 3,304
- 2,730
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: Martin Keith Guitars
It's about separating ego and music.
I play bass and I write music-my most successful involvement happens to have been a project where I write music for a group am I not playing in, and someone else plays bass. (yes that exists: a composing bass player who composes for bass players other than himself).
Does that bass player play my lines? Sometimes. Does it hurt my feelings when he doesn't ? Yes, occasionally, in my weaker moments-I am human too. Does it matter? No, because that bass player is a MONSTER and I love his playing and I love the dude. I am honored that he plays my music, and I have many times been astonished at how fantastic the music came out because of his contributions. So the LAST thing I am going to do is tell him to play my lines: because it is about the song. Maybe my song sucked. Maybe my song is cool but doesn't play to band's strenghts. Whatever-I'll put it aside for another day and write another one.
I always liked the how the Police rehearsed: any tune someone brings in, is given 30 minutes. If the band can't get it to work in 30 minutes, out goes the song. Next!
I play bass and I write music-my most successful involvement happens to have been a project where I write music for a group am I not playing in, and someone else plays bass. (yes that exists: a composing bass player who composes for bass players other than himself).
Does that bass player play my lines? Sometimes. Does it hurt my feelings when he doesn't ? Yes, occasionally, in my weaker moments-I am human too. Does it matter? No, because that bass player is a MONSTER and I love his playing and I love the dude. I am honored that he plays my music, and I have many times been astonished at how fantastic the music came out because of his contributions. So the LAST thing I am going to do is tell him to play my lines: because it is about the song. Maybe my song sucked. Maybe my song is cool but doesn't play to band's strenghts. Whatever-I'll put it aside for another day and write another one.
I always liked the how the Police rehearsed: any tune someone brings in, is given 30 minutes. If the band can't get it to work in 30 minutes, out goes the song. Next!
I'm all for it - but sometimes the author wrote a crummy bassline that *doesn't* serve the song. Are you supposed to play it anyway, or write something better that does serve the song?
I get a lot of "just hit a single quarter note on the root at the beginning of the measure" bassline requests, and what it does, combined with the writer always using the same guitar strum pattern, is make every song sound alike. (Constant plundering of differently ordered I-IV-vi-V chord progressions doesn't help either!) That is not serving the song, the music, or the band.
I cry BS.
Say you write a tune and your guitarist insists he wants a slide part that SUCKS in it, or your drummer thinks he just HAS to add some bongos. You saying you just keep your mouth shut to THEIR stupid ideas?
The writer of the tune has yea/nay power on their tune. Nothing worse than some idiot trying to turn your song into THEIR song...or making it totally different. Sometimes people bring in good ideas...other times they don't. It is the WRITERS choice what goes.
Don't get all this "guitard" BS either. I played guitar before I played bass...in fact I don't know ANYBODY that only ever played bass. Anybody "writing" tunes has some multi instrument skills. If it's a good idea it's a good idea.
In the end I have WAY more problems with DRUMMERS than I do with guitarists or bassists not "getting" my tunes. very frustrating. Want to use all your ideas...write a song.
Seriously, read the posts Ive made in this thread. Suggestions are welcome and I'll make mine, but telling someone "the slide thing doesnt work there" or "this song doesnt sound right with bongos" is not writing their parts. Nor is saying "Maybe you try this on that turnaround" or such.
For the record, Ive only ever played bass. Mostly, anyway, I did pick up a synthesizer, but I wouldnt say that I play the synth like I would say that I play the bass.
I also looked for new people to play with after a guitarist i was just jamming with was insistent i play things a certain way all the time. This included him trying to continually change my technique, he wanted Les Claypool funk metal style and i am much more classic rock\grunge influenced. This got very annoying and caused me to lose interest rather quickly. Much happier being in a band that the whole point is for everybody to be involved in the writing process.
It's all about context. If you are a sideman or hired hand you don't take on the position without expecting to be told what to do. If you are in a band that works as a democracy then you should make your decisions as one. Some bands fudge this.
Case in point. I joined a band that I thought was a democracy and after a year of the lead singer going against what was voted for in meetings, confronted him. He admitted that I was there to play bass and shut up. I left, there and then. 6 months later I was playing bass for a singer song writer and shutting up. The difference was that in one case I was misinformed/lied to and in the other it was perfectly clear what was happening.
I have in some situations been told what to play or stick to the original bassline. Sometimes I have depped/subbed for people and played what they play (more or less). I have been taken on to provide certain sounds/riffs and been happy to do so. I currently jam with friends and no way would I be told what to play. Horses for courses.
BTW this guitard thing is very amusing but should one be holding bandmates/colleagues/friends in contempt? Just asking...
Case in point. I joined a band that I thought was a democracy and after a year of the lead singer going against what was voted for in meetings, confronted him. He admitted that I was there to play bass and shut up. I left, there and then. 6 months later I was playing bass for a singer song writer and shutting up. The difference was that in one case I was misinformed/lied to and in the other it was perfectly clear what was happening.
I have in some situations been told what to play or stick to the original bassline. Sometimes I have depped/subbed for people and played what they play (more or less). I have been taken on to provide certain sounds/riffs and been happy to do so. I currently jam with friends and no way would I be told what to play. Horses for courses.
BTW this guitard thing is very amusing but should one be holding bandmates/colleagues/friends in contempt? Just asking...
couldn't deal with it...it's really hard to go...
"dadadada,dadadada (repeat)
dodododo,dodododo (repeat)"
for the whole song.
But then again...I think if I ever have to play "Last Dance with Mary Jane" again, I'm gonna off myself.
"dadadada,dadadada (repeat)
dodododo,dodododo (repeat)"
for the whole song.
But then again...I think if I ever have to play "Last Dance with Mary Jane" again, I'm gonna off myself.
that used to bug the hell out of me anytime it happened.
but then i started playing with better musicians who either allow me to develop ideas, or have good ideas of their own. now, either is fine- as long as we come up with something cool.
but then i started playing with better musicians who either allow me to develop ideas, or have good ideas of their own. now, either is fine- as long as we come up with something cool.
You have to determine weather or not he has confidence in your skills as a musician. Generally speaking, control freaks can't get past letting other individuals in a situation they are involved in make there own contributions if it does not mirror what they expect! This is his problem; not yours. The only decision you need to make is weather or not you want to just mechanically duplicate what he wants or not! If your on his payroll, that's one thing; if not, you have every rite to set limitations!
What needs to be said has already been said.
Bottom line - just because you can play bass does not mean you can write parts well.
Bottom line - just because you can play bass does not mean you can write parts well.
pablomigraine
Commercial User
The hardest thing to do (for me) is to be humble, try itthe guitarist's way and see if it serves the song well.... and then humbly sumit another option if you feel it doesn't..... but this problem is as old as rock and will never go away!
I had a similar situation in that the gtr player wrote a particular song with a "bassline" on the demo he did played on a guitar. I adapted the part for bass and it worked way better than anything I could come up with!
I guess the idea of having an open mind and a grasp of what the song is saying will dictate whats best-- including allowing for the vision of the song writer.
I guess the idea of having an open mind and a grasp of what the song is saying will dictate whats best-- including allowing for the vision of the song writer.
I don't have as strong a reaction as some others.
I am willing to cut the songwriter some slack that they've got a version of the whole song in their head, and they want to hear it played back. It's not just bass, but guitars, drums, keys, vocals, etc. If everyone in the band just took the songwriter "under advisement" then there would be no common understanding of what the song is meant to be.
So I don't stress it too much on an individual song, or even a collection of songs. I accept that a solid percentage of the songs in a setlist will be well below my technical capabilities - but again - the same is true for the drummer, keyboardist, etc.
What I look for is whether there's enough in the overall set list to keep me engaged and interested. For me it's kind of like; - ok, I'll play a few sucky bass part songs as long as I've got a few "unleash the dogs" songs in there as well. So I look for balance. If I'm having fun, grooving, and I get to cut loose every once in a while I'm good.
More than anything - what matters to me is that the songwriter is actually writing *good* songs. It can be boring to play, but the songs have to be really really good. Played in a band for a while that had a mediocre songwriter. That is far worse.
I am willing to cut the songwriter some slack that they've got a version of the whole song in their head, and they want to hear it played back. It's not just bass, but guitars, drums, keys, vocals, etc. If everyone in the band just took the songwriter "under advisement" then there would be no common understanding of what the song is meant to be.
So I don't stress it too much on an individual song, or even a collection of songs. I accept that a solid percentage of the songs in a setlist will be well below my technical capabilities - but again - the same is true for the drummer, keyboardist, etc.
What I look for is whether there's enough in the overall set list to keep me engaged and interested. For me it's kind of like; - ok, I'll play a few sucky bass part songs as long as I've got a few "unleash the dogs" songs in there as well. So I look for balance. If I'm having fun, grooving, and I get to cut loose every once in a while I'm good.
More than anything - what matters to me is that the songwriter is actually writing *good* songs. It can be boring to play, but the songs have to be really really good. Played in a band for a while that had a mediocre songwriter. That is far worse.
It depends if it is a working band or a hobby band.
In a working band you are paid to play by a bandleader/employer. There are few to no unpaid rehearsals or rehearsals are paid. This is a "do what you are told" situation so I would play the parts the employer wants me to play.
In a hobby band you attend many unpaid rehearsals and the gig pay usually covers gas to attend gigs and the unpaid rehearsals with a little left over.
I would not under any cirumstances do anything that I didn't want to do in a hobby band situation and that includes having any other hobby band member tell me how to play a bass line.
I demand full membership rights and an equal part in all decision making/song writing in the hobby bands that I play with. You would have to have low self esteem to ask for anything less.
Unfortunately I have come across hobby band musicians who want me to be their personal sideman/volunteer/slave. I have no interest in being part of someone else's ego trip without substantial monetary compensation (working band situation). These people want you to help them live their dream/vision and do everything they say (control issues) for little to no monetary compensation. Why would anyone do that?
In a working band you are paid to play by a bandleader/employer. There are few to no unpaid rehearsals or rehearsals are paid. This is a "do what you are told" situation so I would play the parts the employer wants me to play.
In a hobby band you attend many unpaid rehearsals and the gig pay usually covers gas to attend gigs and the unpaid rehearsals with a little left over.
I would not under any cirumstances do anything that I didn't want to do in a hobby band situation and that includes having any other hobby band member tell me how to play a bass line.
I demand full membership rights and an equal part in all decision making/song writing in the hobby bands that I play with. You would have to have low self esteem to ask for anything less.
Unfortunately I have come across hobby band musicians who want me to be their personal sideman/volunteer/slave. I have no interest in being part of someone else's ego trip without substantial monetary compensation (working band situation). These people want you to help them live their dream/vision and do everything they say (control issues) for little to no monetary compensation. Why would anyone do that?
