Brianna Goldberg in Pasadena has some tasty choice bass hair available. Jordan Scapinello mentioned wine pairings would be nice.
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Double Bass Hair Choices
- Thread starter CaseyVancouver
- Start date
Which one goes with a nice cab?
Since I have a German bow, I'm holding out for Gewürztraminer hair.
There seems to be a range of opinion on whether or not the bow hair color/texture makes a difference (apart from black generally agreed upon to be "grippier"). Anyone?
https://www.cpr.org/2014/04/21/10-facts-about-the-horsehair-on-a-string-players-bow/
Bow Sound, Weight & Tone Color
https://www.cpr.org/2014/04/21/10-facts-about-the-horsehair-on-a-string-players-bow/
Bow Sound, Weight & Tone Color
Thomas Martin and Andrew McGill talk about hair at about 13:45
Thomas indicates he prefers unbleached blonde. They both agree mixing white with black is not a good idea.
I find hair needs to be played regularly to work well.
For example, right now I’m alternating between a Reid Hudson bow rehaired by Reid many years ago (10+), but not used much and an old Horst Schicker bow also rehaired by Reid. The hair on the Schicker is fantastic, I believe because it is my ‘go to’ bow and played a lot. I thought the Reid Hudson bow needed a rehair because it just did not deliver like the other bow. The hair on the Schicker, although about 3 years old, plays like fresh hair.
With regular daily use I have discovered the old, but unused, hair has come to life on the Hudson. It now is alive and responsive like the Schicker bow hair. I’m playing Beethoven’s 5th this weekend and either bow will be fine. A month ago I would not of considered the Hudson for this concert.
This might be a good argument for owning only one or two bows, not 5 or 10. I did read about a concert cellist who said playing more than one bow messes with his head. I enjoy having a number of bows to choose from.
I suspect good sticks get passed over in store auditions because the hair is not used much and the bow just does not feel right.
Thomas indicates he prefers unbleached blonde. They both agree mixing white with black is not a good idea.
I find hair needs to be played regularly to work well.
For example, right now I’m alternating between a Reid Hudson bow rehaired by Reid many years ago (10+), but not used much and an old Horst Schicker bow also rehaired by Reid. The hair on the Schicker is fantastic, I believe because it is my ‘go to’ bow and played a lot. I thought the Reid Hudson bow needed a rehair because it just did not deliver like the other bow. The hair on the Schicker, although about 3 years old, plays like fresh hair.
With regular daily use I have discovered the old, but unused, hair has come to life on the Hudson. It now is alive and responsive like the Schicker bow hair. I’m playing Beethoven’s 5th this weekend and either bow will be fine. A month ago I would not of considered the Hudson for this concert.
This might be a good argument for owning only one or two bows, not 5 or 10. I did read about a concert cellist who said playing more than one bow messes with his head. I enjoy having a number of bows to choose from.
I suspect good sticks get passed over in store auditions because the hair is not used much and the bow just does not feel right.
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Wow. That "peanut butter and chocolate" combo wins on flavor alone. Perhaps best paired with a port?
Another opinion on bow hair from Steve Koscica of the String Emporium.
He mentions Murray Grodner. I think we can all agree Mr Grodner, who is still alive, is a master of bass arco.
“Because of today's vast input of people's ideas on the internet, there's some 'folklore' about black hair being better than white hair for a bass bow. I have always been very fortunate in that when I was young and studying the bass, I lived near Chicago, which had a great multitude good bass specialist shops and some very famous violin shops. Once in a while I would see and notice a bass player that was using a bow with black hair! What's up with that I asked?! The immediate explanation and thought was that because the bass had high tension and was on such a bigger scale, that black hair, with its much courser hair fiber, 'grabbed' the string 'better' than white hair. For years, I then used black hair.
Good White Hair Will Grab just as good or better than any other color.
My bass professor and mentor, Murray Grodner (long time teacher at Indiana University) told me once: "I will take really good white hair, over any black hair! "Great white hair grips just as well or better and lasts longer as well." I still didn't believe him in total, because I had pretty good luck with the solid black hair that I was installing for years. Then one day, I got a new bow. It had decent (unbleached) white hair on it and while I could even visibly see and feel that the hair had a nice courseness to it, as opposed to a thin, bleached violin kind of white haired bow. I bought the bow and of course, played it through for about 6 months pretty heavily, unitl it needed a rehair. Of course, I put black on again! Thinking, I will just show Murray how smart I am! Right? Wrong! I was disgusted with the new (quite expensive) stick that I was now freaking over (thinking I was 'stuck') and I don't mean from the rosin! After a couple of weeks of really trying to get the black hair to work, now realizing that it something more that just to break in, I broke down and got it rehaired again. This time, I called around and asked some really good shops "do you have really nice, high end white hair?" So, I brought over my new bow (Ward Hansen) at the Chicago Fine Arts Building on Michigan Ave and by the end of the day, had it back home on my bass. Perfect again and even better. This bow (WHITE) hair with it's super high quality of fiber, really grabbed the string better than ever. I didn't just get a great grip or 'pop' on the beginning, but the hair just grabbed without letting go throughout the whole bow from beginning to end. It made me play better. I had a warmer and fuller sound. and a nicer (fat and long) short stroke. So from that point on, I never ever wanted black hair and I have never been tempted to try it again.
Fast forward 25 years...and here we're at at your friendly, bass specialist String Emporium. We are specialist with anything to do about the bass! While we keep a bolt of black hair here, we mainly re-hair bass bows with white hair. All of our new bows, whether they are coming from China, Germany or USA, come with good, (the very best) white hair that is 'sourced' from the best bow hair dealers in the world(China). BTW, the best quality and most expensive hair comes out of Mongolia, China. That being said, it is therefore super easy for us to get our Chinese made bows (even the cheapest ones) haired with the very best hair. Horse tail hair is getting very expensive. While it was never cheap, it's just getting to be more and more scarce. Think of all the people around the world now buying more scooters and cars...no need for as many horses.
The best white hair will often double or triple the cost of the average* white hair and the cheapest hair by far, 1/8th of the price, is black hair! Again, a comparison: The best white hair grips better than any other hair on the planet. Black hair which by nature is more course, tends to grab better than lower quality white hair. The tradeoffs with black is that the little fibers that stick out, tend to be more brittle and the hair will not last or feel that way for long. The black hair in some cases can often sound a little more edgy compared to a good white haired bow. A bass bow with the best quality white hair will grip more consistantly from frog to tip (hugging string more) and stays nice, longer.”
from Steve Koscica, String Emporium
He mentions Murray Grodner. I think we can all agree Mr Grodner, who is still alive, is a master of bass arco.
“Because of today's vast input of people's ideas on the internet, there's some 'folklore' about black hair being better than white hair for a bass bow. I have always been very fortunate in that when I was young and studying the bass, I lived near Chicago, which had a great multitude good bass specialist shops and some very famous violin shops. Once in a while I would see and notice a bass player that was using a bow with black hair! What's up with that I asked?! The immediate explanation and thought was that because the bass had high tension and was on such a bigger scale, that black hair, with its much courser hair fiber, 'grabbed' the string 'better' than white hair. For years, I then used black hair.
Good White Hair Will Grab just as good or better than any other color.
My bass professor and mentor, Murray Grodner (long time teacher at Indiana University) told me once: "I will take really good white hair, over any black hair! "Great white hair grips just as well or better and lasts longer as well." I still didn't believe him in total, because I had pretty good luck with the solid black hair that I was installing for years. Then one day, I got a new bow. It had decent (unbleached) white hair on it and while I could even visibly see and feel that the hair had a nice courseness to it, as opposed to a thin, bleached violin kind of white haired bow. I bought the bow and of course, played it through for about 6 months pretty heavily, unitl it needed a rehair. Of course, I put black on again! Thinking, I will just show Murray how smart I am! Right? Wrong! I was disgusted with the new (quite expensive) stick that I was now freaking over (thinking I was 'stuck') and I don't mean from the rosin! After a couple of weeks of really trying to get the black hair to work, now realizing that it something more that just to break in, I broke down and got it rehaired again. This time, I called around and asked some really good shops "do you have really nice, high end white hair?" So, I brought over my new bow (Ward Hansen) at the Chicago Fine Arts Building on Michigan Ave and by the end of the day, had it back home on my bass. Perfect again and even better. This bow (WHITE) hair with it's super high quality of fiber, really grabbed the string better than ever. I didn't just get a great grip or 'pop' on the beginning, but the hair just grabbed without letting go throughout the whole bow from beginning to end. It made me play better. I had a warmer and fuller sound. and a nicer (fat and long) short stroke. So from that point on, I never ever wanted black hair and I have never been tempted to try it again.
Fast forward 25 years...and here we're at at your friendly, bass specialist String Emporium. We are specialist with anything to do about the bass! While we keep a bolt of black hair here, we mainly re-hair bass bows with white hair. All of our new bows, whether they are coming from China, Germany or USA, come with good, (the very best) white hair that is 'sourced' from the best bow hair dealers in the world(China). BTW, the best quality and most expensive hair comes out of Mongolia, China. That being said, it is therefore super easy for us to get our Chinese made bows (even the cheapest ones) haired with the very best hair. Horse tail hair is getting very expensive. While it was never cheap, it's just getting to be more and more scarce. Think of all the people around the world now buying more scooters and cars...no need for as many horses.
The best white hair will often double or triple the cost of the average* white hair and the cheapest hair by far, 1/8th of the price, is black hair! Again, a comparison: The best white hair grips better than any other hair on the planet. Black hair which by nature is more course, tends to grab better than lower quality white hair. The tradeoffs with black is that the little fibers that stick out, tend to be more brittle and the hair will not last or feel that way for long. The black hair in some cases can often sound a little more edgy compared to a good white haired bow. A bass bow with the best quality white hair will grip more consistantly from frog to tip (hugging string more) and stays nice, longer.”
from Steve Koscica, String Emporium
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Coruss Hair or other synthetic hair, anyone? I've got a bow I'm going to try it on.
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
What I have heard about bow synthetic hair:
- Works well on bass gut strings.
- On bass it hisses. A lot.
- The bows that come with it do not have a screw to adjust tension so eventually the hair stretches too much.
- The surface of the hair is sanded to get grip & articulation for a pro bassist is impossible.
- Adequate for a beginner youth violinist, but not an advanced player.
- Synthetic violin hair is much thicker than horse violin hair.
- You will get My Little Pony and Unicorn comments if you get a bright colour.
I have never played synthetic hair and would try it when people say it is better than natural horse hair.
Mark Gollihur has said Coruss is good.
Good bass hair is thicker than good violin hair. A great violin hair may disappoint when used for bass.
I’m saying the obvious, what works for violin may not for bass.
- Works well on bass gut strings.
- On bass it hisses. A lot.
- The bows that come with it do not have a screw to adjust tension so eventually the hair stretches too much.
- The surface of the hair is sanded to get grip & articulation for a pro bassist is impossible.
- Adequate for a beginner youth violinist, but not an advanced player.
- Synthetic violin hair is much thicker than horse violin hair.
- You will get My Little Pony and Unicorn comments if you get a bright colour.
I have never played synthetic hair and would try it when people say it is better than natural horse hair.
Mark Gollihur has said Coruss is good.
Good bass hair is thicker than good violin hair. A great violin hair may disappoint when used for bass.
I’m saying the obvious, what works for violin may not for bass.
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Both of my bows are due to be re-haired, so I've been perusing the various TB threads on bow hair color. It really seems like there isn't much of a consensus at all. I was thinking about a salt-and-pepper mix as I don't think I've ever tried that before, but, if there is a consensus, it seems to be that that's not a great idea.
Here are a couple questions that I hope will have objective answers:
1) Is black hair really thicker than white? If so, shouldn't this make it stronger and more durable?
2) Is any color more or less susceptible to humidity/weather changes? I play a lot of outdoor gigs, and sometimes the white hair really doesn't want to respond.
I think I'm gonna get my CF bow done first, which I've been using to work on percussive techniques like those taught by Olivier Babaz. Then, depending on the results, probably get my other bow done with the opposite color. I believe my only options locally are white, black, and salt-and-pepper. Any suggestions for which color to use on which bow will be appreciated. Neither bow is anything fancy. I think the wood bow is about ~$350-$400 new, and the CF somewhat less.
Here are a couple questions that I hope will have objective answers:
1) Is black hair really thicker than white? If so, shouldn't this make it stronger and more durable?
2) Is any color more or less susceptible to humidity/weather changes? I play a lot of outdoor gigs, and sometimes the white hair really doesn't want to respond.
I think I'm gonna get my CF bow done first, which I've been using to work on percussive techniques like those taught by Olivier Babaz. Then, depending on the results, probably get my other bow done with the opposite color. I believe my only options locally are white, black, and salt-and-pepper. Any suggestions for which color to use on which bow will be appreciated. Neither bow is anything fancy. I think the wood bow is about ~$350-$400 new, and the CF somewhat less.
These kinds of discussions on bow styles, strings, and bow hair always get my kaka detector quivering.
I try to stay quiet and listen. You don't want to rush these things
I found shipping a hank of hair from Upton rather amusing and ludicrousJust wanted to add I always find it somewhat amusing when my wife sources new hanks of hair. Just has her working w/ folk and considering factors quite outside my suburban life!
Somehow I am sure there are better options than this. Hey Upton it could fit in a regular envelope. Only posting this because shipping shocked me.
I’ll just send the bow to the man who made it.
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That is certainly ridiculous, could it be some automated charge related to international shipping? I can't imagine they would expect anyone to pay that!I found shipping a hank of hair from Upton rather amusing and ludicrous
Somehow I am sure there are better options than this. Hey Upton it could fit in a regular envelope. Only posting this because shipping shocked me.
I’ll just send the bow to the man who made it.
View attachment 4512328
Here are the options when I type in my US zip code:
Maybe they'd cut you a better deal if you call or email them...
