Hard cases now non essential?

[wmhill]

I guarantee you can fold a traditional tolex/plywood Fender-style case in half with only slightly more effort. Difference is, after you fold the gig bag in half the bass may be toast but the bag is reusable; you can only fold a tolex HSC in half once.

So it's OK if the bass is destroyed.... but as long as you can reuse the gigbag it's OK??
hahahahahaaa! have at it!

 

[Oldschool94]

TLDR the whole thread, just the first few pages. I use a soft–hard case cause I don't like my basses getting dinged, it's easier to pack in the instrument and stuff, it has more storage capacity, and the bass gets a little less banged around. It's not a dichotomy of no vs perfect protection.

 

[Honch]

I'm surprised more touring musicians don't do this, especially now that incredibly nice gig bags are so commonplace. First time I saw someone doing this was Pat Metheny in the mid-1980s: I worked with Pat's guitar tech (Mark Herbert) and when Linda Manzer dropped off Pat's new solid-body for a setup, it was in a gig bag inside an Anvil flight case. Seemed like such a simple yet brilliant idea. Like Russian Nesting Dolls.

[edit: notice how I dropped three names in a single post? ]

Then I drop the fourth at the drop of a hat: Wasn't Carolyn Chzran, Pat Methenys guitar tech? Always and Forever?

 

[Bob_Ross]

Wasn't Carolyn Czran, Pat Methenys guitar tech? Always and Forever?

Yeah, I probably misidentified Mark's job: Mark has always done Pat's repairs & setups, but he stays home in Boston; the girl (I'm presuming that's the Carolyn you mentioned, but the crew always referred to her as "the girl") goes on tour and maintains Pat's instruments as his personal technician/instrument valet on the road. At least that's what I recall, it's been over 20 years since I worked with those folks.

 

[JackANSI]

Next thread? "Are basses now non essential?"

I mean, we have synths, virtual instruments, octave pedals... Why do we need basses anymore? Right?

What a worthless thread...

 

[Bob_Ross]

So it's OK is the bass is destroyed.... but as long as you can reuse the gigbag it's OK??

Well, it's not really "OK"...but my point was if you think a traditional plywood/tolex Fender-style hardshell case is offering more protection than a modern gig bag, you're just not trying hard enough.

 

[wmhill]

Well, it's not really "OK"...but my point was if you think a traditional plywood/tolex Fender-style hardshell case is offering more protection than a modern gig bag, you're just not trying hard enough.

I've been gigging for 30+ years, and I've seen enough gig bag mishaps first hand (and yes modern ones too) to know the difference.
So the only thing I'm trying hard enough to do is see how anyone can't tell the difference between the strength of wood versus
cotton & nylon.

 

[Son of Wobble]

What's the point of this?

What's it to you, pal??
I wasn't addressing you nor would I care to. Mind your own beeswax.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Spent too much time as a roadie/tech on the road to ever trust a gig-bag.
Hard shell for me.
My Fender American Standard Jaguar came in one of these: Fender Accessories ABS Molded Precision Bass/Jazz Bass Case - Red Handle

Very nice.

 

[Bob_Ross]

So the only thing I'm trying hard enough to do is see how anyone can't tell the difference between the strength of wood versus cotton & nylon.

Perhaps you undersestimate the tensile strength and/or elastic modulus of rigid thermoplastics?

Irrespective of that sort of data, here's three experiments. You can do these as thought experiments, or, if you have access to a typical Fender-style tolex/plywood rectangular HSC and a modern hybrid bag, like a Mono M80 or Protec Contego, perhaps you'd be willing to load them both up with your basses, perform these tests, and let us know how they came out?

#1 - paint the inside lid (the inside top cover) off the HSC and the hybrid bag with a thick coat of oil-based paint. While the paint is still wet, put your bass inside, and close the lid. How much weight on top of the case/bag would it require before wet paint got on your bass?

#2 - set the stops on an industrial drill press to 3/8". Lay the HSC (loaded with your bass) horizontally on the work table and drill a hole or ten dead center. Repeat with the hybrid bag. Which bass survived unscathed?

#3 - remove the basses from both cases, replace them with a large fresh ostritch egg. Drop cases onto a concrete floor from various heights, starting at ~3' and going up to, oh, say, ~10'. Which case required you to deploy the industrial-strength fabric cleaner sooner?

It is my contention that a modern hybrid gig bag far surpasses a traditional rectangular Fender-style plywood/tolex hardshell case in the areas those experiments are designed to test: Top deformation, isolation from less-than-catastrophically-deep punctures, and shock isolation.

I've been fortunate in that I've never gathered any empirical evidence vis a vis punctures, but I have had a couple basses sustain minor damage due to the top deformation of a Fender HSC (one involved gear stacked next to it in the truck, the other involved some idiot stepping on the case while it lay on its back), and I've had three basses suffer minor damage -- and one suffer major damage, headstock snapped clean off -- due to the lack of shock protection in a Fender-style HSC. And I am really comfortably confident that had any of those instruments been in, say, a Mono M80, none of that damage would have happened.

 

[wmhill]

Perhaps you undersestimate the tensile strength and/or elastic modulus of rigid thermoplastics?

Irrespective of that sort of data, here's three experiments. You can do these as thought experiments, or, if you have access to a typical Fender-style tolex/plywood rectangular HSC and a modern hybrid bag, like a Mono M80 or Protec Contego, perhaps you'd be willing to load them both up with your basses, perform these tests, and let us know how they came out?

#1 - paint the inside lid (the inside top cover) off the HSC and the hybrid bag with a thick coat of oil-based paint. While the paint is still wet, put your bass inside, and close the lid. How much weight on top of the case/bag would it require before wet paint got on your bass?

#2 - set the stops on an industrial drill press to 3/8". Lay the HSC (loaded with your bass) horizontally on the work table and drill a hole or ten dead center. Repeat with the hybrid bag. Which bass survived unscathed?

#3 - remove the basses from both cases, replace them with a large fresh ostritch egg. Drop cases onto a concrete floor from various heights, starting at ~3' and going up to, oh, say, ~10'. Which case required you to deploy the industrial-strength fabric cleaner sooner?

It is my contention that a modern hybrid gig bag far surpasses a traditional rectangular Fender-style plywood/tolex hardshell case in the areas those experiments are designed to test: Top deformation, isolation from less-than-catastrophically-deep punctures, and shock isolation.

I've been fortunate in that I've never gathered any empirical evidence vis a vis punctures, but I have had a couple basses sustain minor damage due to the top deformation of a Fender HSC (one involved gear stacked next to it in the truck, the other involved some idiot stepping on the case while it lay on its back), and I've had three basses suffer minor damage -- and one suffer major damage, headstock snapped clean off -- due to the lack of shock protection in a Fender-style HSC. And I am really comfortably confident that had any of those instruments been in, say, a Mono M80, none of that damage would have happened.

\
Really????????????????

 

[Bob_Ross]

Yes.

 

[jerry]

I use gig bags all the time except for mainland flights and I have a case with TSA locks for that.

 

[Arturo+music]

Cases! I put my case........, no, seriously, When I bought the Rickenbacker 4001 in 1973, I bought the case with it, a plush lined hard case. For other bases, I have a soft gig bag and some unlined gig bags for keeping my other guitars in. When working on a daily basis, moving around a lot, a hard case for your bass is the best protection possible unless you can afford a flight case. If you are only in local mode, a soft padded gig bag should suffice. The decision is yours, lads.

 

[Honch]

Well, there's evidence that people seem to think HSC is still somewhat needed "in between". A false (definitely) sense of security. I don't know if anyone bicycles or rides the bus (does anyone in the US) but rain and wet sticks onto HSC more than say a MONO case. You should really NOT keep any of these cases in rain, but I think like this: the more padding, the more protection. Not the more hard shell and MINOR padding. The HSC cases are very thin walls and the padding makes up. But as such large surfaces FLEXES under pressure I think that, say, in a very awkward scenario, if someone just accidentaly stepped on a bass inside something, it will survive better in the soft MONO M-80 case than it had in a regular Fender HSC case.

Now, I'll rest my case.

EDIT: No, on another thread here at TB (Does gear makes you sick), there's this also one:

"Recently , several things made overseas have been found to be fairly toxic. As stated just above , the glues used for tolex and for that matter for the making of plywood have been found to be toxic. (Not all of them , but a few.)"

I've found no glue or extremely little on gig bags.

 

[kbr]

Here are some pictures of my flight case. To me, a flight case should do/have a few things.

1. ~1" of padding in all directions (you can see the string indention in the top padding and how thick that top lid is)
2. Not allow the bass to move excessively (bonus if it doesn't move your tuners when you put the bass in!)
3. Virtually indestructible (especially the latches)
4. Casters
5. Good Handles
6. Casters

My case is custom. Totally worth it for an expensive bass. Don't worry about it if the bass is worth less than a custom case. Fun story, after one show, the drummer wedged a speaker stand against my case in the trailer (with the open part of the stand's cylinder dug into my case) and didn't tell me. When we unpacked the trailer, I saw that the stand went all the way through to the first layer of fiberglass in the flight case. My bass didn't have a mark on it. That speaker stand would have gone all the way through a hard case and left me with a semi hollow. It would have been too holey for even the Christian music we played. Sorry, I'll stop. Anyway, Bonus! The builder of my case fixed it for free when I showed him. I paid him to paint it blue then; before that I left it black in case I wanted to sell it. This thing is probably going with me to the grave (It's almost big enough to bury me in!).

To recap, (hybrid) gig bags are perfect for most people most of the time. Otherwise go Flight Case or go home (possibly bassless).

 

[Fun Size Nick]

I'm really surprised that Hiscox Liteflite cases don't get much attention here...do they not have much distribution in the US? They're hugely popular in the UK & Australia. They're plastic/expanded foam cases but a major step up from your typical gator etc due to materials & construction methods. The foam & outer shell are bonded together for rigidity - a few people can stand on top of one of these without bending it!

The design philosophy is similar to a motorcycle helmet - rigid to protect against small impacts, and deformable under heavy impacts in order to prevent shock from passing through to the instrument. Much, much lighter than your typical flight case (nice for keeping under 20-23kg TOTAL weight limits when flying in most parts of the world), and lighter than a Fender plywood HSC. I've been travelling with mine for years and have been very happy with it.

Plywood HSCs are great for bumps but not real impact or drops - there's usually hardly anything soft/deformable on the inside to absorb big shocks, and often noting to stop the instrument from moving around inside the case. My '74 Jazz came with wear marks on the end of the headstock from where it had repeatedly banged up against the inside of the case...I bought a better case for it straight away.

 

[zontar]

It all depends on what you do, and where you go.
Some gig bas are little better than wrapping he bass in a blanket, others are better--but the better ones get a lot more expensive than a hardshell case.

One piece of advice I received years ago--that makes sense to me is to never spend more on a case/gigbag than the bass/guitar is worth.
One exception would be if you were flying.
But if you don't fly--I'd go by that rule.

I've had a couple of guitars take tumbles down stairs in a hardshell case and come out okay--no damage.
In one case (Er instance) the case wasn't even properly closed.

 

[Honch]

Regarding the "Hard cases for me,the world is full of drunks just dying to knock something over."

I think, I have seen NO HARD CASE as of yet which has stops at the open lid mode. I have heard of numerous "case crushing" where the lid accidentally drops and closes while you're taking your bass out, and makes severe dings and dents on it. If it is a flight case it's HUGE damage. Why can't they ever build something that you need a hand grip on, that locks the lid when it's open? So if you have to close it you really have to squeeze a lever in the middles or locking mechanism so it's opens up the locking mechanism, and can be brought down again. And then when you squeeze it, it opens again. Then, any drunk can't accidentally knock the lid over. Should it be so damm hard? This is also one of the main reasons I choose a higher end gig bag, because that'll never happen.'

I have had more accidents happen when the lid closes accidentally, than with other people goofing up. This is on ANY hard case. I though at least on hard flight cases such mechanism would be a breeze to install, and makes most sense since the lid can come down quite heavy on you.

Maybe one of you knows if there's a lid like that out there on any hard case? That locks as fast you release your hands from it. In any position even, not only full way up.

 

[JackANSI]

Regarding the "Hard cases for me,the world is full of drunks just dying to knock something over."

I think, I have seen NO HARD CASE as of yet which has stops at the open lid mode. I have heard of numerous "case crushing" where the lid accidentally drops and closes while you're taking your bass out, and makes severe dings and dents on it. If it is a flight case it's HUGE damage. Why can't they ever build something that you need a hand grip on, that locks the lid when it's open? So if you have to close it you really have to squeeze a lever in the middles or locking mechanism so it's opens up the locking mechanism, and can be brought down again. And then when you squeeze it, it opens again. Then, any drunk can't accidentally knock the lid over. Should it be so damm hard? This is also one of the main reasons I choose a higher end gig bag, because that'll never happen.'

I have had more accidents happen when the lid closes accidentally, than with other people goofing up. This is on ANY hard case. I though at least on hard flight cases such mechanism would be a breeze to install, and makes most sense since the lid can come down quite heavy on you.

Maybe one of you knows if there's a lid like that out there on any hard case? That locks as fast you release your hands from it. In any position even, not only full way up.

I have yet to have this problem with any of my hard cases, if I'm understanding it correctly. (Lid closing ~on~ your bass)

First I've even heard of it actually.