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Hardwired IEM plan (Avalon U5 / DTAR Solstice)

jazzercountry

jazzercountry

Apr 12, 2000
1,333
699
Texas
Disclosures
Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
#1
Hey folks,

I'm planning to finally break down and order some good molded ears, so I'm trying to put together a flexible hardwired rig to accommodate.

I do a lot of fill in work, so what (or if) I get in a monitor mix will be constantly changing.

I want a rig that allows me to have control over my sound to ears, independently of what's sent to FOH, as well as being able to accept 1/4" or XLR sends for a monitor mix. I would also like the ability to patch in a small omnidirectional mic for the times I don't get anything at all as far as a mix. I also need some form of limiting on at least the monitor send, maybe everything.

My first inclination has been to use the Avalon U5 as a front end, then the DTAR Solstice as the mixer for the ears (but only if I can verify that the main output will give me stereo in my ears - not really stereo, but both sides mono) since it is so flexible (EQ and level controls on each channel). I can then run a limiter on an insert for the monitor mix channel, if I can find a decent one.

How's that sound? Other opinions are always helpful!
 
#2
I can get you started...Im sure there is cheaper ways to get this, but I have years of experience using Shure IEM systems, so thats what I started with.

Since you said you do a lot of fill in work, I assume that this needs to be something small/portable, simple to hookup, and offer decent control over monitoring yourself (and not getting control of every input on stage, but using a single "mix" sent to your from the FOH).

I think you need more than two inputs, and that Star seems to only have 2 inputs. I don't think it's exactly what you need.

Your suggestion is basically what you get if you were to just get a Shure PSM400 level system. It consists of a:

P4M $339- 4 channel stereo mixer (P4M) with volume and pan control on each input, and it also allows passthrough onto the FOH snake via XLR or 1/4" combo jacks on the back. This passthrough is important. With 4 (also XLR and 1/4") inputs, you can run your Avalon, Mic, Aux send from the FOH, and the omni mic in if you need it. You can pan the sources, sending some things in the left ear, and some things into the right. Now lots of places are saying its discontinued, but it's still on Shure's site. You can get one from Amazon.

P4HW $279 - This is a stereo beltpack to plug your IEMs into. It has two inputs (L and R), and a pan control on the beltback as well. You can plug this into the back of the P4M mixer's L and R outputs. There is a limiter built into this pack to protect your hearing.

Being wireless IEMs, I just wanted to point out that the P4HW hardwired belt pack is slightly different than the P4R wireless belt pack ($350). I have the PSM200 system, and the hardwired pack and wireless pack are the same, but it's mono, so it didn't meet your requirements so I didn't recommend it. So if you think you are going to be moving to wireless, then just spend the cash and get the P4R. You will also need the P4T transmitter ($339) at the same time, so it's time to decide wireless vs wired before buying the pack.

If you must have EQ, then get a stereo EQ and run your feed out of your P4M mixer outs to feed the EQ, then out of that to feed your pack if you go wired, or to the P4T if you go wireless. This wont give you EQ on each source. That would get tricky to do and not change the FOH signal. I don't need EQ for monitoring.

The Shure units are rack mountable with the supplied brackets. I would put them in a 4 space rack with the Avalon and prewire everything. Make a 4 channel snake with mic cables out the back of the rack to plug into the FOH snake, and plug the source inputs into the front of the mixer. Should be a quick setup.

-----
Edit - If you think you have to have EQ, then I would suggest something a little different. The key is getting the DI levels split to the FOH before you do anything, so you would need something like the Art S8 8 channel mic splitter. It only offers XLR ins/outs, but that would work ok for your requirements. The Avalon XLR would go out to the the S8, and you would plug your vox mic right into the S8. If you used the S8, then you could use any 4 channel mixer with both XLR and 1/4" inputs and channel strip EQ. The split from the S8 would plug into the first 2 XLRs of the desktop mixer, and the house monitor feed and the optional omni mic would go in channels 3 and 4. You could pan L and R out to the headphone out. Yuu plug the Avalon and mic split out to the house FOH. You wouldn't have limiter unless you added it at the inserts with another piece of gear, or used the P4R pack as I stated before. If you used the pack, then you would use the main outs, and not the headphone out to drive it. You could also get a single channel headphone amp and run it with the outbourd limiters, but you wouldn't have volume control on your belt, which is handy.

Just another option...use of that 8ch split snake is forward compatable if/when this becomes a band used item. You can't really share the Shure P4M.

Wes
 
#3
PM351 will do what you're describing... you may need one spare cable (or converter)

~$75 used... they're a great "splitter" or pass through "more me" mixer if you choose to go to wireless IEM

The PM351 doesn't have a limiter... the PSM200 does (still helps to self-mix with the PM351)
 
#4
Going stereo really makes the cost of this go way up. The Rolls wont do stereo, or pan. The "both sides mono/stereo" let me to believe that he wants to be able to pan different material from left to right in his IEM. I probably misread what he wanted...If he doesn't need it, and wants mono in his ears, then that PM351 is the ticket as far as a 3 source mixer. Great price.

The PSM200 pack isn't stereo either. The headphone out is the only output on the Rolls since you are using the other two to passthrough to the FOH. It's missing a mixed line output...That headphone output might be too hot to plug into the PSM200 pack, an outboard EQ, or limiter before eventually getting to a headphone amp. Those are expecting line voltages. If you don't want EQ or limiting with some outboard equipment, then just plug your headphones into the headphone out.

Do you have a vocal mic? You didn't say anything beyond that omni mic issue when FOH didn't give you a line feed. If you do use a vocal mic, then it will be utilizing the only XLR input on the Rolls. You will need to use a DI for that omni mic so you can plug it into the Line input of the rolls on times when the FOH feed isn't there.

You will have some issues getting EQ and limiting in the system with the Rolls, unless MNAirHead has figured it out. He has used these Rolls mixers with great success, so I would put some weight in what he recommends for sure...

Wes
 
#6
Opinion: I'd start very simple while doing homework

Many folks will engineer a complex system with too many variables

I own several systems - many of the upperend ones are really designed with the sound tech controlling everything - my "best" system is the toughest to learn and least forgiving. There are tons of hidden costs
 
#7
The pm351 does stereo in/out on the instrument in i think, but not panable dual mono. Very few people do dual mono because it is much more expensive. I dont, but would love to have it. For the money, the rolls is the cheapest way to go for mono wired solo monitoring.
 
#8
Very good info, I appreciate it all. I don't need the ability to pan or anything like that, just want to make sure that I have sound in both ears. I shy away from the Rolls because I worry that it won't be able to accept a wide enough variety of sources from one gig to the next. I can pretty much plan on either getting my own aux send (ideal, obviously), getting some sort of shared mix (not so great), or nothing at all (that's when I'd throw up a little mic). I don't sing or anything, so I'll only ever need 2 channels, don't need to pass anything through to foh.
 
#9
If thats the case, i think the rolls is perfect for you. It will do 2 line inputs, or an xlr. 3 inputs total. If you arent using the pass throughs, then you could just use any cheap mixer though. You will gain eq ability.
Are you using an aux out on the avalon or something while using the di out on the avalon for the house mix?
 
#10
I have a Rolls PM351 and one of these:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's just a passive box that clips on your belt and it allows you to regulate the in-ear volume overall, but also has a earphone jack like any typical wired iem belt pack -- you need a preamp like the Rolls to drive it. The key though is you can also plug your bass into it and it sends your bass signal out on the same proprietary cable as the IEM signal is coming in -- thus only one tether/cable to worry about onstage. I plug it into my Rolls, and connect up the bass and mic through the Rolls and the monitor feed coming in from the board to the Rolls.

Both units are very well built, and the Rolls is a very versatile and useful box. I wish i'd gotten one years ago. don't be fooled by the low price on the Rolls - it's quality.

I used to use an ART Headamp Pro that I had mounted in my rack but the Rolls is actually more useful to me in allowing me to regulate the volume of both my own vocals and my bass easily.
 
#12
I would suggest another avenue , well the expression would be "another highway" :p

A MOTU Ultralite.

You could plug your bass in a preamp and use one of the 8 mixes to send a signal to FOH and another mix with the included headphone amp and one of the other inputs to mix yourself onstage.

Stuff to know: This is a very small standalone mixer , it doesn't need a computer to work.
You have a full parametric 6 band EQ + compression at each input and output.
So , for 550$ , you have:
-A DI
-A preamp for your bass
-A preamp for your omni mic (if the need arise)
-An headphone amp
-A limiter for you headphones
-A very good EQ and comp for everything else.
-A digital mixer

I personaly use a Traveler mk3 for my wired IEM with great success. I can take all the band's mike and make a mix just for myself :)
 
#15
The Motu Hybird is a possiblity.. (yes own one)

For practical use, it's nice to have the Rolls box on a stand directly in front of you with actual knobs.

To "really" use Motu you'll also be carrying a large screen laptop....

You'll also be doing some custom cabling as for size-sake, motu lives/breathes on TRS (skinny size) plugs
 
#17
MNAirHead said:
To "really" use Motu you'll also be carrying a large screen laptop....
Click to expand...
I agree that you need a laptop to do the setup but once it's done , you save the patch and just recall it at the gig.
You have access to all parameters on the fly directly on the unit.
Not a big deal.

The knob for headphone volume is right there.
 
#18
I am tryng not to post my IEM setup on here too much but considering you want eq and compression limiting I think it appropriate.

IEMracktopangle.jpg


Signal path is: Bass - Wireless - Tuner - Presonus Studio Channel pre - PM351.

FOH - PM351

PM351 - BlueMax Comp - EQ - IEM system

Channel 1 of the EQ is inserted in the side chain of the Comp to dictate which freqs are the most compressed.

I use the 2nd output of the Studio Channel to feed a powered monitor for some stage level. The Studio Channel is a PRe, Eq, and Compressor all in the 1RU
 
#19
fokof said:
I agree that you need a laptop to do the setup but once it's done , you save the patch and just recall it at the gig.
You have access to all parameters on the fly directly on the unit.
Not a big deal.

The knob for headphone volume is right there.
Click to expand...

I own one - on the fly and in emergency correction mode it's not convenient

I actually bought a touch screen laptop to make it easier

My band lives and dies on the motu
 
#20
MNAirHead said:
I looked at the IXM... do they have a limiter --- or are they just a volume knob?

There is a belt-clip for the Rolls Box OR the belt back for a Shure PSM has a limiter on it... can sometimes be hard wired.
Click to expand...

Just a volume knob. I just go really easy on the Rolls. Ideally, the Rolls should have a limiter since it's the amp but it doesn't.

I use the JumpAudio IXM to give me somewhere to plug in/attach my earbuds (box on belt) and the main reason I use it is for the single cable for both bass and in-ear signals. With only one cable to worry about, i'm less likely to trip up on stage. I don't really use the volume knob on it at all but rather leave it all the way up since it's just an attenuator.
 

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