• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Hartke Shape Toggle, What Is It Exactly?

Count Bassie

Count Bassie

Supporting Member
Jun 10, 2006
16,784
64,486
Smithfield, RI
#1
I like what the Shape feature in my Kickback 12 does. That amp is having issues however, and at least for the moment I'm putting a Trace Elliot Elf in the headspace of my Kickback 12. It's working out fine and is a nice little gig amp, esp because I replaced the speaker with a Hartke neo... But, if I could get that Shape toggle in a pedal, I might do it.
Any experts on this kind of thing hanging by?...

IMG_20251031_085029409.jpg
 
#2
Count Bassie said:
I like what the Shape feature in my Kickback 12 does. That amp is having issues however, and at least for the moment I'm putting a Trace Elliot Elf in the headspace of my Kickback 12. It's working out fine and is a nice little gig amp, esp because I replaced the speaker with a Hartke neo... But, if I could get that Shape toggle in a pedal, I might do it.
Any experts on this kind of thing hanging by?...

View attachment 7366872
Click to expand...
Yahboy

Post in thread 'Hartke shape control. What is it?'

Shape knob work like scoop point within range 100hz - 900kh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HolmeBass and Count Bassie
#3
From the manual:

4. SHAPE Control - When the SHAPE switch is pressed in, this control is active. It applies a 20 dB filter to the specified frequency area so that you can customize the effect of the Shape curve to best complement your particular bass instrument. Moving the Shape control clockwise causes the notch filter to be applied to higher frequencies while moving it counterclockwise causes it to be applied to lower frequencies. At the fully clockwise position, the filter is applied to the 900Hz frequency area; at the fully counterclockwise position, the filter is applied to the 100Hz frequency area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iristone, HolmeBass and Count Bassie
#4
coreyfyfe said:
From the manual:

4. SHAPE Control - When the SHAPE switch is pressed in, this control is active. It applies a 20 dB filter to the specified frequency area so that you can customize the effect of the Shape curve to best complement your particular bass instrument. Moving the Shape control clockwise causes the notch filter to be applied to higher frequencies while moving it counterclockwise causes it to be applied to lower frequencies. At the fully clockwise position, the filter is applied to the 900Hz frequency area; at the fully counterclockwise position, the filter is applied to the 100Hz frequency area.
Click to expand...
So a "notch" is a cut, not a boost, yes? This can pretty much also be achieved with a parametric filter I would imagine...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iristone and Zooberwerx
#6
Count Bassie said:
So a "notch" is a cut, not a boost, yes? This can pretty much also be achieved with a parametric filter I would imagine...
Click to expand...

If you want something fancy maybe the empress paraEQ, you can get -15dB cut in each band and it has a three position switch to change the Q width. The 100Hz to 900Hz range is covered by the low and mid controls so you can sweep them to find the sweet spot. Pricey though.

empresseffects.com

ParaEq MKII

The Empress ParaEq MKII brings back the most sought after studio-grade parametric EQ pedal. Ultra-low noise, Super transparent. Now it a smaller form factor.
empresseffects.com empresseffects.com

Cheaper might be something like the ibanez PTEQ, has five bands, similar overall with gain and Q adjustments (though the Q is sweepable too). Only -10dB of cut so not as deep as the notch filter on the Hartke.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PTEQ--ibanez-pteq-penatone-5-band-parametric-eq-pedal

Cheapest option would be some kind of graphic eq pedal though generally those won't be sweepable so you'd be tethered to the available bands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Count Bassie
#9
coreyfyfe said:
If you want something fancy maybe the empress paraEQ, you can get -15dB cut in each band and it has a three position switch to change the Q width. The 100Hz to 900Hz range is covered by the low and mid controls so you can sweep them to find the sweet spot. Pricey though.

empresseffects.com

ParaEq MKII

The Empress ParaEq MKII brings back the most sought after studio-grade parametric EQ pedal. Ultra-low noise, Super transparent. Now it a smaller form factor.
empresseffects.com empresseffects.com

Cheaper might be something like the ibanez PTEQ, has five bands, similar overall with gain and Q adjustments (though the Q is sweepable too). Only -10dB of cut so not as deep as the notch filter on the Hartke.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PTEQ--ibanez-pteq-penatone-5-band-parametric-eq-pedal

Cheapest option would be some kind of graphic eq pedal though generally those won't be sweepable so you'd be tethered to the available bands.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that short menu... I really want just a single control with a moveable notch, that's all the Hartke is. There must be one out there...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
#10
Count Bassie said:
Thanks for that short menu... I really want just a single control with a moveable notch, that's all the Hartke is. There must be one out there...
Click to expand...

What sort of pedals / peripherals do you have on-hand? Just spit-ballin'.

Problem with some of the simpler PEQ's is that they're semi with a fixed bandwidth which will result in a major tone-suck...unless that's what you're looking for. I've seen some pretty decent ones but they're pricey...the first two that come to mind are the Fishman Platinum Pro and EBS MicroBass 3.

Riis
 
  • Like
Reactions: Count Bassie
#11
It's essentially a glorified mid scooper.

Not something I personally appreciate.

I hated my Hartke combo amp, still I was stupid enough to buy it twice, obvious the tone hadn't changed for the better the second time around, to my big disappointment. :rolleyes:

I would think the Artec SE-PEQ one band fully parametric equalizer ought to do the trick for cheap.

And yes a 20dB narrow mid cut is effective, at least in numbers, in my opinion also at sounding like crap, but you are obvious of another opinion, so perhaps the above will do it for you, even if it only offers up to a +/- 12dB boost/cut.

Otherwise get a Zoom MS-70CDR, the Bass Para EQ model it comes with goes to +/- 20dB, and is fully parametric as well.
 
Last edited:
#12
It's essentially doing some version of this pic. The manual doesn't specify how wide the bandwidth is, so it could be wider or more narrow than this. Then any EQ you apply gets applied to this curve.

To replicate the Shape feature, it's slightly trickier than it might seem. On a basic level, just find an EQ where you can set the frequency of a Bell EQ to the same frequency you set the Shape feature, and cut that EQ band all the way.

But, we don't know the bandwidth (Q) of the Shape Filter. So you might need to try different EQs or find one with an adjustable Q for each band.

And also different amps have different baked-in sounds when they're set flat (All EQs at +/-0dB & all features turned off.) So you'll need a way to compensate for that, separate from the EQ band you're using to replicate the Shape. The EQ on the amp might be able to do it, or you might need a more full-featured EQ.

If the two amps sound different when "flat", first adjust the EQ on the new amp until it sounds like the flat-Hartke. Then turn on the EQ you're using to replicate the Shape feature.

Screenshot 2025-11-12 at 12.04.26 PM.png

Note: this EQ i screenshot maxes out at +/-15dB. The SHAPE button is another 5dB cut more than this. Like @agedhorse said, that's a fairly tremendous cut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Count Bassie and agedhorse
#13
FullumMusic said:
But, we don't know the bandwidth (Q) of the Shape Filter.
Click to expand...
The manual describes it as a notch filter, so I would expect a fairly high/narrow Q. The cut shown in your image is considerably wider than what I would typically expect for a notch filter, but to your point; We don't really know anything more specific. My guess is that if it's implementation is actually a notch filter then it was likely intended to be a feedback suppression tool for use with an upright bass more so than for general tone shaping, but the name "shape" makes me think the opposite of that, so... It's all speculative at this point 🤷‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iristone
#15
silky smoove said:
The manual describes it as a notch filter, so I would expect a fairly high/narrow Q. The cut shown in your image is considerably wider than what I would typically expect for a notch filter, but to your point; We don't really know anything more specific. My guess is that if it's implementation is actually a notch filter then it was likely intended to be a feedback suppression tool for use with an upright bass more so than for general tone shaping, but the name "shape" makes me think the opposite of that, so... It's all speculative at this point 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
I was uncertain about that too. It said "Notch" but described a a Bell EQ with a -20dB cut. I've always used Notch Filter to mean it's at -infinity dB (or something functionally the same as -infinity dB) at the center frequency like in this pic, because it's a filter, not an equalizer. Filters filter out; Equalizers boost and cut to equalize.

You can still adjust the Q of a Notch Filter. There's no standard Q for a Notch filter. It just filters a notch out of the spectrum, however wide. Might be semantics. I could go check my Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook to see if there's a more official delineation between Bell EQ and Notch Filter as pertains to bandwidth, but i'm too lazy to do that right now. :laugh: If my curiosity persists i might check later.
Screenshot 2025-11-12 at 1.38.16 PM.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Count Bassie and Zooberwerx
#17
FullumMusic said:
I was uncertain about that too. It said "Notch" but described a a Bell EQ with a -20dB cut. I've always used Notch Filter to mean it's at -infinity dB (or something functionally the same as -infinity dB) at the center frequency like in this pic, because it's a filter, not an equalizer. Filters filter out; Equalizers boost and cut to equalize.

You can still adjust the Q of a Notch Filter. There's no standard Q for a Notch filter. It just filters a notch out of the spectrum, however wide. Might be semantics. I could go check my Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook to see if there's a more official delineation between Bell EQ and Notch Filter as pertains to bandwidth, but i'm too lazy to do that right now. :laugh: If my curiosity persists i might check later.
View attachment 7367003
Click to expand...
Academically I would describe a notch as an extremely narrow or high Q bell filter. Like you I tend to think of a notch filter as going to -INF, but do frequently use very narrow cuts of varying levels of reduction in the studio that I would arguably also refer to as a notch for lack of a more concise term. It’s all ultimately semantic. What we know is that it’s a 20db cut somewhere from 100-900hz and that Hartke calls it a notch which would lead to a reasonable assumption that it’s likely narrow (high Q). How narrow? Only Hartke knows unless it’s been published in a manual somewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Count Bassie, Iristone and FullumMusic
#18
I’m kind of doubting the 20db notch description. First off, it’s described as a variable fixed curve which includes boosts and a cut.

TX300 | Hartke

The lightweight TX300 bass amplifier is the answer for bassists who need a compact amp that can handle the demands of any gig. With 300 watts of power packed into an aluminum chassis that weighs just five pounds, and a flexible preamp with Hartke's Shape circuit for dialing in any tone, the...
www.hartke.com www.hartke.com

Next, I’ve owned several Hartke amps with that Shape knob and still use a KB15 on occasion for smaller gigs. The impression I get is it’s closer to the way it’s described on their website… a little boosting (probably on either side of the dip)and a moderate cut - not as much as 20db to my ears. I would describe it as a Deep switch that allows you to move the dip about the mids. I say that because I generally associate a Deep switch with a little low end and high end boost along with a center cut.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back