Has anyone actually gotten "there?"

[MattZilla]

I was seventeen when I had fully mastered all of the useless showoff Dimebucketor Wootpool crap in addition to playing locked in deep with [clicktracked recordings]. My "next level" that I've been working on for fourteen years is restraint and taste. Unfortunately, most "musicians" who can tolerate me on a personal level tend to also be really bad enablers to my wankaholic tendencies.

 

[joebar]

It's a constant journey to rediscover what you already know in a different way and thus know it even better.

But if you want to know how much further you can go, find an Anthony Wellington bass clinic on You tube.If anyone is "there" , Anthony is. And yet, he still practices his craft rigorously.

He actually puts this more eloquently than I

truer words were never spoken

 

[Ragoo]

I hope I never get "there", wherever that is, because if I did playing would get boring fast.

 

[jamro217]

I've been "there" many times. Here's a brief travelogue to explain. First "there" was the ability to finger a string without using my other hand to physically place my fretting finger in the right spot. Second "there" was being able to play a C without looking at the book to find it. The third "there" was being able to play all the way through a three chord rock and roll song without too many obvious mistakes. Fast forward forty years. I haven't been able to cleanly play the fretless solo on an original jazz piece that includes a glissando from the upper register to a series of slightly off tempo sixteenth notes that culminate in a return to the opening phrase, but in reverse order. Sure am glad I didn't stop when I was "there" with the rock and roll song.

 

[MarkA]

The "blissful state" that Anthony Wellington mentions in the video several posts up has been, for me, elusive. I've been there several times, but fleetingly. I agree that it doesn't necessarily coincide with a specific level of technical achievement so much as with a certain freedom within that level (though I've played with people who were "blissfully ignorant" - their bliss, not mine - maybe that's a different kind of bliss, though).

When I learn something I've been working hard on for awhile, I have to be careful that it doesn't turn into a cliché for me. There are certain licks and tricks that, while hard won and maybe even representative of legitimate breakthroughs at the time, I cringe to hear in my own playing now. That's not to say I can't ever let myself play and enjoy them, just that I don't want that to be an autopilot substitute for real engagement, risk-taking. I think it's in Punk Jazz (the Jaco documentary) where Jaco supposedly tells Joe Zawinul one day that he's run out of licks, to which Zawinul responds, "So don't play licks." I guess anything can become a "lick" if we let it, even ways of thinking or ways of being. That's not a judgment, it's an observation (well, maybe a bit of a judgment, but I don't think it's inherent in the statement). You can improvise like one of those tired licks. You can play printed music or covers with engagement and creativity.

There's a lot more that could be touched on. Those are just my thoughts on one little corner of a room.

Getting out of one's own way, while not the only necessary skill, is in itself a skill that can be practiced. Some people need to practice it more than others. I am better there than I have been, but it hasn't always come easily to me.

 

[gypsyfelon]

The trick is....you are already great and always have been and always will be regardless if you play "well" or not. By not associating your sense of self worth with your playing, you will actually play much better and more free.

Amen to that brother.

 

[Tom Howland]

My goal when I started playing, was simply to progress and get better. Playing bass has been one of my constant joys for over 25 years.
For the last 8 years, I've supported myself as a full time musician. There is no destination, only the journey. Be in the now.

 

[angryclown5]

I look at my musical progress like learning a language. The point of learning a language is to be able to express ideas, understand ideas from others, and have conversations.

I just learned a chunk of musical vocabulary and "sentence structure" this past semester at Community College. Even though I feel like I have a long way to go, conversing is getting easier and becoming more enjoyable.

If one studies and becomes fluent in the English (or any) language, does learning stop there? I think fluency enables not only the expression and understanding of more complex ideas, but also the creation of deeper and more complex ideas.

 

[chuck3]

It's a constant journey to rediscover what you already know in a different way and thus know it even better.

But if you want to know how much further you can go, find an Anthony Wellington bass clinic on You tube.If anyone is "there" , Anthony is. And yet, he still practices his craft rigorously.

He actually puts this more eloquently than I

Can't say it any better than that.

 

[Pelao]

I don't accept the implied premise of the question: What's wrong with accepting oneself as a musician...AND being committed to the process of continual improvement - as a musician, and as a human being?

I'm definitely not proposing that they are mutually exclusive. It just seems a little bit of a stretch to say that someone is accepting of their limitations, yet seeks to break them. I feel like if you truly accept what you can do, then there's no desire to want to change it. Change, to me, is a consequence of NOT accepting limitations, whether self-created or otherwise.

Like I stated in my second post, I want to avoid all the self helping-liners that seem to get spewed. I have my own beliefs regarding my question, but it is for this very reason that curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to hear what other people thought. I don't want to hear the politically correct "It's the journey, not destination." or " There is never an end to learning" etc. I am curious about the PERSONAL experiences that people have had trying to chase the goalposts. As awesome as it would be for everyone on Talkbass, or better yet, the world, to have absolute perseverance, I understand that that is not a reality. I think that many times, the wishful-thinking mentality drowns out the minority, and I wanted to encourage dialogue in which those who feel like they are clearly on one side or the other to share their thoughts, not regurgitations of talking points.

I'm troubled by your pessimistic framing of the issue, i.e. "eternally doomed" (drama much?), "elusive", etc.), and I really don't wish to validate it by engaging with it. I see music as a metaphor for life: If you're not progressing, you are by definition regressing - however imperceptibly.

So get hip to the way the game is played, and decide whether you want to win or lose. Either way, it's going to be a long and bumpy ride. So you might as well decide to enjoy the journey.
MM

In my first post I specifically mentioned that I wasn't being negative. If my choice of words are questionable, then ignore them and look at the content. To call out my premise on the basis of "pessimism" and and decide not to engage with it seems a little silly (though didn't you engage by posting?). As musicians one of the big things we should be striving for is not judging someone's ideas or creativity because of lack of technique. Human experience is universally understood, regardless of knowledge of grammar or vocabulary or harmonic theory.

I am "hip to the way the game is played," but this thread was for me to better learn about my fellow bass players within this community.


To those that have been truthful, thank you. Reading all these posts has been quite the experience.

 

[okcrum]

I'm there now. It'll be time to move on soon, though.