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Having problems playing with a pick
- Thread starter Deerhunter113
- Start date
Pick from the elbow. Anything else is too slow, plus it's exhausting. Hold the pick loosely but not sloppily. Be as precise as possible about maintaining the same exact grip at all times. Select a pick and stick with it. I use Tortex green (0.88mm), standard shape. The proper amount of flex is critical. You'll feel this as you progress.
When you engage the string with the pick, you're going to preload the string. You're jacking up the tension before you let the note go. This happens by itself using fingerstyle, but you have to think about it with a pick. You're not striking the string. You're loosing it like a bowstring. At the extreme, you want to feel like you're spitting notes off the strings like little crossbow bolts.
(As a side note, all basses will sound decent being played gently, but not all will take to being forced. Some setups and woods will choke and fail to give you the huge dynamic range that picking will allow.)
Your grip will naturally begin tightening as you preload the string. At release, your grip will be at its tightest. You want the feeling that you are forcing the string to break free of the pick on its own. Of course you control the depth of engagement and ultimate tenseness of grip, which will vary at will from note to note, giving you tremendous expressive control.
Allow your hand to be naturally cupped. Your thumb will be parallel to the plane of the strings and the tip of the index finger will point straight down into the strings. Viewed from the side, they're at right angles to each other, with the tip of the index finger extending below the thumb so that half the nail is visible below the thumb from the side.
Learn to damp with both hands to exert total control over each note's envelope. Right hand muting feels weird because if you're picking from the elbow, your hand is moving. You're going to mute as your hand moves, using the horseshoe-shaped contact patch stretching from of the base of your thumb to your palm heel. If your open palm is a clock face, that's from 4:30 to 9:30 on the clock face.
This will take a long time (it took me 46 years to feel I got it right). You will be tempted to go back to fingers because they sound way better when you first start picking. If you stick to it, you'll end up with more wallop and meat in your sound than you can get fingerstyle. If you can put some nail into each note and maintain great nails, one may be as good as the other in the studio (fingertip shape and size is probably also a limiting factor).
But there's the perfect world of the studio and the real world of lousy halls. And for the same functional reason I'd take a P bass over any other to play an unknown hall (because you can gut the EQ on a P mercilessly and never lose an ounce of authority), I'll take the pick over fingers.
After all, our role is to feed our bands pitch, pulse, and nav aids (where we are in the tune, and when our vocalists take a left, we have to reinvent the form and dictate the new game plan to our bands). I don't care what we like or what comes easiest. Business before pleasure.
When you engage the string with the pick, you're going to preload the string. You're jacking up the tension before you let the note go. This happens by itself using fingerstyle, but you have to think about it with a pick. You're not striking the string. You're loosing it like a bowstring. At the extreme, you want to feel like you're spitting notes off the strings like little crossbow bolts.
(As a side note, all basses will sound decent being played gently, but not all will take to being forced. Some setups and woods will choke and fail to give you the huge dynamic range that picking will allow.)
Your grip will naturally begin tightening as you preload the string. At release, your grip will be at its tightest. You want the feeling that you are forcing the string to break free of the pick on its own. Of course you control the depth of engagement and ultimate tenseness of grip, which will vary at will from note to note, giving you tremendous expressive control.
Allow your hand to be naturally cupped. Your thumb will be parallel to the plane of the strings and the tip of the index finger will point straight down into the strings. Viewed from the side, they're at right angles to each other, with the tip of the index finger extending below the thumb so that half the nail is visible below the thumb from the side.
Learn to damp with both hands to exert total control over each note's envelope. Right hand muting feels weird because if you're picking from the elbow, your hand is moving. You're going to mute as your hand moves, using the horseshoe-shaped contact patch stretching from of the base of your thumb to your palm heel. If your open palm is a clock face, that's from 4:30 to 9:30 on the clock face.
This will take a long time (it took me 46 years to feel I got it right). You will be tempted to go back to fingers because they sound way better when you first start picking. If you stick to it, you'll end up with more wallop and meat in your sound than you can get fingerstyle. If you can put some nail into each note and maintain great nails, one may be as good as the other in the studio (fingertip shape and size is probably also a limiting factor).
But there's the perfect world of the studio and the real world of lousy halls. And for the same functional reason I'd take a P bass over any other to play an unknown hall (because you can gut the EQ on a P mercilessly and never lose an ounce of authority), I'll take the pick over fingers.
After all, our role is to feed our bands pitch, pulse, and nav aids (where we are in the tune, and when our vocalists take a left, we have to reinvent the form and dictate the new game plan to our bands). I don't care what we like or what comes easiest. Business before pleasure.
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Try the Wedgie hard rubber picks. Not only do they sound and work great with just the right amount of friction against the strings, they have an indentation so that they are easy to hold and don't rotate. I only use a pick once in a while and they are very easy for me to adapt to. They come in different densities to suit your needs.
I got mine from bassstringsonline.com
I got mine from bassstringsonline.com
This is right. I also agree. 100%. To tackle this you need to learn to periodically reposition the pick, one-handed, so it doesn't work its way completely out of your hand. You're bound to lose it if you're not paying attention. It's just another skill to develop. Not so hard. And some picks, like those already mentioned, and others, will work better for you. It depends too, to a degree, on what you're playing.
What you'll see most often is a progression over time from thinner to thicker picks. The thicker ones tend to allow a greater dynamic range but they're harder to master as they're less forgiving and demand a softer touch.
I don't know if you've ever played an agate pick, but some flex is necessary for precise release timing.
I don't agree completely. I don't like much flex in my picks and generally go from 1mm to 1.5mm depending on how thin it feels. I like thin picks without flex. Less work, sharper tone(my preference). Right now I have been enjoying Dunlop Gator Grips in 1.5mm.
I may agree with you for a fatter tone, but some tones are indeed from striking the strings, much like a guitar. Ever heard the main bass riff to "Sober" by Tool? All 4 strings are being strummed aggressively, much like a guitar, and muted in much the same way a guitarist mutes with his left hand while strumming chords.
Strangely, a lot of stuff I like on bass is when it's being treated like a guitar being picked, but still having a bassist who knows to stick with the kick. Less like Lemmy and more like Billy Gould.
This is utterly false. The flex you're describing in the bowstring analogy can come from the fingers holding the pick rather than the pick itself.
Picking from the elbow sounds to me like it would be incredibly exhausting! You don't need to move your entire lower arm to pluck a bass string. Maybe this works for you, but it is certainly a minority opinion. Most teachers say that all of the motion should be in your wrist, not in your elbow or anywhere else. Carol Kaye, whose picking technique is regarded by many as the "gold standard," strongly emphasizes this -- in part to maximize speed and accuracy, and in part to avoid injury.
The flex in a pick is what tells you precisely when the note will "break." A rigid pick (I've played agate ones; no flex whatever) does a GREAT "surprise release"--but it's a surprise to the player, too (mondo bummer).
While the wrist does move as part of the whole forearm, that is NOT wrist movement. The forearm of necessity rotates on its axis, and forearm movement comes from the elbow.
My account of my experiences with the agate pick are utterly true. But I don't deny that yours can be true for you, because I must have both certainty and necessity before calling a man a liar.
Not true. I play with 'rigid' unflexible pick, it doesn't happen that way at all. At all.
Again,..it's not true. You can do whatever technique you want. But what I do -as the great Carol Kaye and many many orher basissts here would tell you - if it's a wrist movement tehnique, it's a wrist movement instead of elbow. Elbow movement is different technique, and is not recommended here by people who recommend 'Wrist movement' instead.
I can only conclude that either you and I play an entirely different kind of music, have entirely different picking techniques, and/or experience the world in drastically different ways.
I've never been surprised by the release of the string from a non flexing pick. However, I'd estimate each of my picking strokes to be in contact with the string no more than a few hundredths of a second, I certainly cannot discern audible or tactile releases within that small of a time frame.
Lots of good advice. I'm going to offer a suggestion, take it for what it's worth.
Try using a thumbpick. You don't have to worry about the grip then. It allows you to focus very well on technique. I don't flex at the elbow, as some have suggested. I flex at the wrist.
Anyway, I've been learning to use a thumbpick, while it's not ideal yet, it works really well for most songs. (I'm strictly a pick player.)
Try using a thumbpick. You don't have to worry about the grip then. It allows you to focus very well on technique. I don't flex at the elbow, as some have suggested. I flex at the wrist.
Anyway, I've been learning to use a thumbpick, while it's not ideal yet, it works really well for most songs. (I'm strictly a pick player.)
I like your bowstring analogy and I was perhaps a little heavy handed saying "utterly false"...that kind of talk is not very conducive to constructive dialog. The idea of loading and releasing you're talking about is something anyone using a pick needs to wholly understand in a tactile way if not intellectually. But it's also necessary to understand that when using a very rigid pick the flex essential to loading and releasing the string can come completely from the fingers without sacrificing any control. Even using a pick with significant flex much of the load/release still comes from your fingers. That it can come completely from your fingers is my experience but it's also born out by number of guitarists with beautiful control and blinding speed who use very heavy picks. Here he's probably using an extra heavy plastic pick but in the past Pat Martino has used the agate picks you claim prohibit a controlled release. Does this sound in any way uncontrolled?
This ^ video also provides a nice illustration of a picking style, like Carol Kaye's, in which all of the motion is in the wrist. You can't see his elbow, but you can see that the visible part of his forearm isn't moving much at all.
Informative video on picking - - -
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FWIW - "fast" John McLaughlin style picking is based on "Sarod style" picking.
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FWIW - "fast" John McLaughlin style picking is based on "Sarod style" picking.
I like thumb picks. . . and finger style . . . all together.
Two flavors :
1. a floppy thin or medium plectrum taped to a nice wide stiff thumb ring. Has a nice "flappy" 1960s - 70s tone. Get into that Motown groove, or Sun records or Carol Kaye.
2. a Dobro clear thumbpick (banjo style) with its hard point trimmed down to a "V" barely protruding from my thumb. That baby, turned at an oblique angle, flies. (Scalpel or Sarod style) Good mileage - seems to wear forever.
....
CAVEAT - when choosing a thumb pick watch out for narrow thumb ring edges that cross a cuticle. You won't notice it when trying it on at a music store, but about 45 minutes into a set, you're going to want to rip it off. Try and find a wide flaring thumb ring that puts the edge safely away from the nail cuticle.
....
Dobro pick:
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Two flavors :
1. a floppy thin or medium plectrum taped to a nice wide stiff thumb ring. Has a nice "flappy" 1960s - 70s tone. Get into that Motown groove, or Sun records or Carol Kaye.
2. a Dobro clear thumbpick (banjo style) with its hard point trimmed down to a "V" barely protruding from my thumb. That baby, turned at an oblique angle, flies. (Scalpel or Sarod style) Good mileage - seems to wear forever.
....
CAVEAT - when choosing a thumb pick watch out for narrow thumb ring edges that cross a cuticle. You won't notice it when trying it on at a music store, but about 45 minutes into a set, you're going to want to rip it off. Try and find a wide flaring thumb ring that puts the edge safely away from the nail cuticle.
....
Dobro pick:
Invalid Link Removed
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