I had two separate HD 12's back in the day. Sounded great with a Shuttle 6.0 head. But, they sounded great with pretty much any head, IMHO.
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Head suggestions for Bergantino HDN212
- Thread starter Blue
- Start date
Well I use a Mesa WD800 and love it. I also have a Bergantino Forte HP2 that does a great job as well.
Why not a Bergantino Forte D? It’s 700w @ 4 ohms which matches your cabinet perfectly. Also, you could always call Jim Bergantino at the shop for his recommendation. After all, his amps were specifically designed for his cabs.
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Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Bergantino B/Amp always seemed to be a good fit for me when I had either the CN series or HDN. I'd keep that Mesa in the stable as an alternate flavor if you are fickle like me.
I have two Bergantino B Amps (a Mk1 and a Mk2) that pair really well with my Bergantino HDN212, in fact it’s become the rig I’ve used the longest and an happiest with! My vote would be for an HP Ultra, and maybe a second HDN212 to go with it.
Not helping my GAS!!!
And, there is a 1K on my local CL!!
Hey @Al Kraft
All IMO, and IME, of course:
I gigged the CN212 for a long time - lots of different amps - never used the tweet. I loved that cab - form factor, volume, tone. Loved that cab.
The last few years I had it, I thought it had a bit of an upper mid peak thing going on. Mostly, it never bothered me - but when really pushed with certain amps, it could kind of get into that thing.
During COVID, I sold it. No gigs, and I had been using a pair of CN210 cabs anyway.
After COVID, I continued with my CN210s, but started missing the CN (form factor, easy load, etc). Actually tried to buy it back from the dude, but couldn't track him down.
Missed it so much, that I got a pair of the NXT 112 cabs - Berg 12s, but a "better" form factor (I thought). I didn't jive with those cabs, and was missing my long gone CN212, especially the "one cab" solution.
Anyway - filled with regret, I stumbled across a HDN212 on the guitar center used page. Not trying to "upgrade" or anything, I was actually looking for a used CN212, and this was the next best thing. Could not be happier.
Same form factor, weight, but different drivers. To me it is more full in the low end - more of that pillow under the band. You don't have to work it as hard as the CN to fill out the bottom of the stage. It is also so smooth in the upper mids / treble. Beautiful top end. Absolutely nothing harsh, stiff, or sticking out of place. Just smooth, with as much treble as I would ever want (even without the tweet). It feels a little less "stiff" or "forced" than the CN. Very organic / natural. I think when you really push it hard to LOUD volume, it holds together a bit better than the CN.
To me, it's just like one better than the CN.
If GC had a CN for sale, that's what I'd be gigging. I'v been gigging it for a few years now, and it continues to inspires me to play - especially when I can crank it up a bit.
Fuchs bass amps… I really dig mine. It’s the Walter Woodsish version with the higher wattage. The other version has an svt like preamp…
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,777
- 40,459
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
Thanks for that detailed review and comparison!
My sense when I finally got to quickly try out an HD cab (after I owned the CN212) was that they were a bit naturally/inherently fuller in the deeper lows without sacrificing that balanced, "seamless across the frequency range" sound that Berg cabs all seem to have. I feel like with some eq (and the CN takes eq well) that I can get the CN close to the HD but it was a bit tighter/stiffer where the HD felt more relaxed.
I really appreciate you taking time to share your experience and it mirrors what I always suspected I'd have heard in performance from my quick opportunity to try one out.
Jim Bergantino
Commercial User
Actually the HD cabs were ceramic designs. The HDN was neo. I agree with @hennessybass description of the two designs (CN vs HDN) and that was exactly why we did the HDN series. To warm up the CNseries’ 12” designs by redesigning the woofers to give a fuller low end output which naturally smoothed out the mids a bit.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,050
- 5
- 221,006
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I would also suggest listening to the Forte D.
Jim Bergantino
Commercial User
Appreciate the recommendation, but to be honest we don’t specifically design our cabs and amps just to work well with each other. We design them to work well with everyone else’s amps and cabs too. And given the amount of positive reviews from players stating how are cabs sound better with their amp then the amps manufacturer cabs, as well as how our amps make the other manufacturers cabs sound better, I think we accomplished what we set out to do!;-).
That's pretty much a great TLDR for my post!
Totally agree with your about the CN and EQ.
Glad to know I'm not crazy
Thanks, @Jim Bergantino . Been a fan of your cabs for a long time.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,777
- 40,459
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,777
- 40,459
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
I had a chance recently to try out an Ultra with my own CN212, The amp is quite simply impressive. It has all the precision and polish to the tone that is IME characteristic of the Forte series combined with what seems to be enough power on tap to launch a rocket into orbit.
It sounded great through my CN212 and really made the cab come to life. The power is nicely controlled and doesn't overwhelm you as volume or loudness (unless you want that). Rather it delivers very full, big, harmonically substantial notes regardless of the volume. I had the feeling that this head would never be short on clean headroom.
The compressor was exceptional, I liked both user selectable amp voicings, and the high and low pass filters along with the bright and punch filters were a great complement to the well chosen EQ controls' frequency points. The Drive control was more subtle and tasteful than brute force, which made it a very usable feature for me.
Everything just seemed well thought out, nicely integrated, and expertly engineered. Nothing was overdone or felt added on. OBTW for nothing to feel overdone in an amp with the reserve power this head has is pretty notable. While I do think careless users could easily damage a cab with this machine, I would say the same is true of most of the newer breed of high powered amps (800 Watts) I've played and owned. Power should always be used responsibly regardless of amp output or cab input ratings.
I have always liked the audiophile clarity and presentation of the Bergantino amps. To me they are honest, very minimally voiced heads. While the Ultra is true to that design heritage to my ears, it also has the ability to bring in a lot of character and extra depth at the user's discretion.
Sorry for the long post, but I had offered some "amp with character" ideas earlier in the thread and since I had the opportunity to try an Ultra, I figured I'd share my impressions. And while I know Jim doesn't specifically design his heads and cabs to work together, but rather to work well in any brand combination, having an all Bergantino rig isn't exactly a bad thing. In case it wasn't obvious, I like the Ultra a lot!
It sounded great through my CN212 and really made the cab come to life. The power is nicely controlled and doesn't overwhelm you as volume or loudness (unless you want that). Rather it delivers very full, big, harmonically substantial notes regardless of the volume. I had the feeling that this head would never be short on clean headroom.
The compressor was exceptional, I liked both user selectable amp voicings, and the high and low pass filters along with the bright and punch filters were a great complement to the well chosen EQ controls' frequency points. The Drive control was more subtle and tasteful than brute force, which made it a very usable feature for me.
Everything just seemed well thought out, nicely integrated, and expertly engineered. Nothing was overdone or felt added on. OBTW for nothing to feel overdone in an amp with the reserve power this head has is pretty notable. While I do think careless users could easily damage a cab with this machine, I would say the same is true of most of the newer breed of high powered amps (800 Watts) I've played and owned. Power should always be used responsibly regardless of amp output or cab input ratings.
I have always liked the audiophile clarity and presentation of the Bergantino amps. To me they are honest, very minimally voiced heads. While the Ultra is true to that design heritage to my ears, it also has the ability to bring in a lot of character and extra depth at the user's discretion.
Sorry for the long post, but I had offered some "amp with character" ideas earlier in the thread and since I had the opportunity to try an Ultra, I figured I'd share my impressions. And while I know Jim doesn't specifically design his heads and cabs to work together, but rather to work well in any brand combination, having an all Bergantino rig isn't exactly a bad thing. In case it wasn't obvious, I like the Ultra a lot!
Here’s where I ended - for now.
Much clearer, more alive, easy for a dummy like me to understand, plenty loud .. but does run hot !!
Much clearer, more alive, easy for a dummy like me to understand, plenty loud .. but does run hot !!
Never had the Gibson version, but did have the AMP and Thunderfunk.
Incredible amps!
Incredible amps!
This is a very early Dave Funk upgrade, can’t tell from the outside but obvious when opened up.
