Headless clamping system?

[Roland777]

Hey there.
I'm wondering what those of you who have built your own headless basses have done to resolve the issue of fastening the strings at the nut? This assumes that your bass does NOT use double-ball strings, since I'm sketching up plans for yet another instrument, this time a headless fretless 6-string, that is most definitely doable, apart from this little problem of the clamping headpiece.

 

[wilser]

Status-graphite headless pieces accept both double ball and regular strings via a set hex screw

 

[Son of Magni]

ABM makes a headless system that clamps with a set screw.

 

[scottyd]

I have built 2 so far out of brass its really not that hard to do. I did most of the shaping using files and drum sanding bits. They are pretty much like the ones described above they hold the strings with an allen set screw.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Yeah brass works well and is not bad to work with. You do need a way to tap them, thanks to a friend I borrowed a set. When I did my build there were no ABM's available and I'm very happy with how mine came out. The screws weren't exactly in perfect alignment but for my first attempt they work great. And no slipping like my other ABM clamps do,especially with coated strings.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Dirk

 

[iamlowsound]

I haven't built one, but I have a bass with a status headless system on it and it uses either double ball or a set screw to clamp it in. I have never used a double ball string in it, but the set screw works great.

lowsound

 

[scottyd]

Yeah brass works well and is not bad to work with. You do need a way to tap them, thanks to a friend I borrowed a set. When I did my build there were no ABM's available and I'm very happy with how mine came out. The screws weren't exactly in perfect alignment but for my first attempt they work great. And no slipping like my other ABM clamps do,especially with coated strings.
Dirk

Nice one Dirk, it looks like you build yours alot like I build mine . I make mine to where the strings run down through at a 90 degree angle to help give more down pressure on the nut or zero fret. Heres some shots of the second one I did, it came out a lot better than my first. So far Ive had pretty good luck with them. They clamp well and I have not had any string breaking.

 

[flakeh]

Nice one Dirk, it looks like you build yours alot like I build mine . I make mine to where the strings run down through at a 90 degree angle to help give more down pressure on the nut or zero fret. Heres some shots of the second one I did, it came out a lot better than my first. So far Ive had pretty good luck with them. They clamp well and I have not had any string breaking.

how much you charge to make one? i am also making a headless 4 string bass, and this part has me really stumped.
or atleast anyone got a guide on how to make one?

-flakeh

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Hey Scotty,
Yours came out great too and a nice finish on it. And I dig the the flare on yours, that's very unique and cool, kudos to you!
Nice looking neckwood too on that bass.
And your design with the largest screw in the center makes great sense. And your counter sinking is a great classy addition.
And it's nice to know I'm not alone in doing headless stuff, I'm quite addicted to the style now. I'm trying to convince Hipshot to do a single bridge tuner like the ABM's, if they do that maybe they'll do a clamp too.
In the meantime I'll keep making my own.
Dirk

 

[scottyd]

Hey Scotty,
Yours came out great too and a nice finish on it. And I dig the the flare on yours, that's very unique and cool, kudos to you!
Nice looking neckwood too on that bass.
And your design with the largest screw in the center makes great sense. And your counter sinking is a great classy addition.
And it's nice to know I'm not alone in doing headless stuff, I'm quite addicted to the style now. I'm trying to convince Hipshot to do a single bridge tuner like the ABM's, if they do that maybe they'll do a clamp too.
In the meantime I'll keep making my own.
Dirk

Thanks Dirk, do you know how ABM or Status makes theirs where the string lays through a slot? Ive tried that method before and the problem Ive ran into is that you have to drill a hole that goes past the slot so you can run a tap far enough to get enough threads for the set screw. Maybe its just my taps, they require the the hole to be about 1/8" deeper than what I need because of the way they are built.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Hey scottyd,
well since we've already de-railed this thread, let's continue.

When I did mine I had to go deeper than I thought I needed to also. Well I actually re-tapped about 3 times to get it right. But I'm also a rookie when it comes to metal, I don't even own a set of taps yet. I had to borrow and experiment/learn how to use them.
Also the set screws I used were larger in diameter and I ground a bit of a flat spot on the bottom of each one to help grip.

But I have a bass with an ABM and theirs is less deep, but I also have had issues with slipage on Elixirs and DR Extra Lifes with the ABM and my deeper tapped hole holds like it should.

Cheers,
Dirk

 

[pilotjones]

It sounds like you may want to make what's called a "bottoming tapped hole." This is blind hole (that is, a hole which does not extend through the material and out the far side--so you can't see through it, therefore "blind") where there is a maximum length of thread, in a minimum length of hole. To do it, you need a regular tap drill, and three taps-- a taper tap, a plug tap, and a bottoming tap.

A taper tap is the one you normally buy in a hardware store. The other two are bought from an industrial supply, or could be made from an old broken taper tap if you have a grinder.

A taper tap usually has a cone portion at the tip. This is followed by the threaded portion. The beginning of the threaded portion, though, has a chamfer ground on it, so that it increases from a small diameter to full thread diameter. It is this portion that does the thread cutting, and is also the portion that results in "incomplete threads," since the material does not end up with the threads cut to full depth.

On a taper tap, this region extends across the first 7-10 threads at the tip, so it leaves behind 7-10 incomplete threads (threads not fully cut to full thread profile/depth). Because of this, when using a taper tap only, you've got to tap drill far deeper than the intended final thread length.

A plug tap and a bottoming tap both have little or no cone at the tip-- they get right to the threads. Plus, the chamfers are cut steeper. The plug tap has only 3-5 incomplete threads, and the bottoming tap has 1-2 incomplete threads. They each have less ability to cut threads than the previous one, so you have to use them in order.

So, to make a hole that is threaded nearly to the bottom, you
- drill just a little longer than the intended thread length
- run down the taper tap
- run down the plug tap, bringing the fully tapped region deeper
- run down the bottoming tap, bringing the fully tapped region very close to the bottom.

Along the way, you have to be even more careful about chip removal than you would have to be with a simple taper tap in a blind hole.

 

[Suburban]

To add to pilot's thesis above, you could do quite well by drilling the last few mm's with a flat bottom drill. Hence:
1 ordinary drill, tip should go to desired depth
2 flat bottom drill to desired depth
3 taper tap
4 plug tap
5 bottoming tap

Here's my, slightly different, approach on the LoW (otherwise I used ABM's):

String go thru the wood, thru a plate with threaded holes 90degrees to the string holes. Then I used ordinary Allen screws (cheeper) to hold the strings. Works fine, but you need to take some care with the thinnest strings, not to clip them with the screw.

 

[Tenma4]

...

Here's my, slightly different, approach on the LoW (otherwise I used ABM's):

String go thru the wood, thru a plate with threaded holes 90degrees to the string holes. Then I used ordinary Allen screws (cheeper) to hold the strings. Works fine, but you need to take some care with the thinnest strings, not to clip them with the screw.

OK, so I follow. I'm considering a headless design on my 1st build. I wonder why I can just turn the strings around so the ball end is at the end of the neck and tuners at the body end. For that matter, I don't think I have to clamp the strings down at all, but only have something that the ball sits in similar to how a traditional bridge does.

Does anyone else do this? What has been your experience?

 

[Roland777]

OK, so I follow. I'm considering a headless design on my 1st build. I wonder why I can just turn the strings around so the ball end is at the end of the neck and tuners at the body end. For that matter, I don't think I have to clamp the strings down at all, but only have something that the ball sits in similar to how a traditional bridge does.

Does anyone else do this? What has been your experience?

I've been sketching around with the idea, but you're gonna have to look quite a bit to find a working tailpiece-assembly to make the whole thing work (Much more if you're planning to draw one for yourself up!). The headpiece is a piece of cake, unless you're using gargantuan strings. Just take a look a through-body stringings, most notably on guitars, and make a headpiece that mimics that approach, with an open end, large enough to place the string in, but small enough to keep the ball-end in place.

 

[pilotjones]

OK, so I follow. I'm considering a headless design on my 1st build. I wonder why I can['t] just turn the strings around so the ball end is at the end of the neck and tuners at the body end. For that matter, I don't think I have to clamp the strings down at all, but only have something that the ball sits in similar to how a traditional bridge does.

Does anyone else do this? What has been your experience?

Kubicki does it, with an end similar to the string anchors Ritter uses at his bridge:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[bkim]

It sounds like you may want to make what's called a "bottoming tapped hole." This is blind hole (that is, a hole which does not extend through the material and out the far side--so you can't see through it, therefore "blind") where there is a maximum length of thread, in a minimum length of hole. To do it, you need a regular tap drill, and three taps-- a taper tap, a plug tap, and a bottoming tap.

A taper tap is the one you normally buy in a hardware store. The other two are bought from an industrial supply, or could be made from an old broken taper tap if you have a grinder.

A taper tap usually has a cone portion at the tip. This is followed by the threaded portion. The beginning of the threaded portion, though, has a chamfer ground on it, so that it increases from a small diameter to full thread diameter. It is this portion that does the thread cutting, and is also the portion that results in "incomplete threads," since the material does not end up with the threads cut to full depth.

On a taper tap, this region extends across the first 7-10 threads at the tip, so it leaves behind 7-10 incomplete threads (threads not fully cut to full thread profile/depth). Because of this, when using a taper tap only, you've got to tap drill far deeper than the intended final thread length.

A plug tap and a bottoming tap both have little or no cone at the tip-- they get right to the threads. Plus, the chamfers are cut steeper. The plug tap has only 3-5 incomplete threads, and the bottoming tap has 1-2 incomplete threads. They each have less ability to cut threads than the previous one, so you have to use them in order.

So, to make a hole that is threaded nearly to the bottom, you
- drill just a little longer than the intended thread length
- run down the taper tap
- run down the plug tap, bringing the fully tapped region deeper
- run down the bottoming tap, bringing the fully tapped region very close to the bottom.

Along the way, you have to be even more careful about chip removal than you would have to be with a simple taper tap in a blind hole.

Or if you're resourceful (cheap) like me you could drill all the way through and loctite a piece of threaded rod (screw) into the backside of the clamp and grind it flush with the clamp. Then you have full strength threads all the way to the bottom of the hole.

 

[pilotjones]

Or if you're resourceful (cheap) like me you could drill all the way through and loctite a piece of threaded rod (screw) into the backside of the clamp and grind it flush with the clamp. Then you have full strength threads all the way to the bottom of the hole.

Cool idea.

For an even more finished-looking version, you can tap drill thru, tap the brass block as deep as you need threads, and then from the other side, bore a hole a little larger, to the appropriate depth. Fill this semi-blind bore from the back side with brass rod or dowel, then grind/polish flush, and the dowel will be nearly invisible if the brasses were similar in color.

 

[bkim]

Cool idea.

For an even more finished-looking version, you can tap drill thru, tap the brass block as deep as you need threads, and then from the other side, bore a hole a little larger, to the appropriate depth. Fill this semi-blind bore from the back side with brass rod or dowel, then grind/polish flush, and the dowel will be nearly invisible if the brasses were similar in color.

If you use brass screws/bolts you you don't have to enlarge the hole. Just grind flush and polish. As long as you keep everything tight, you should be able to keep it seamless.

 

[pilotjones]

Yeah, my idea was that a dowel press fit into a reamed hole would be invisible, as opposed to threads with their necessary gap (present at root and crest even with a class 3 interference fit), which would leave an indented ring at the surface. I've seen the dowel thing done in brass and steel, and it was completely invisible in the brass (bolster of a pocketknife) except just after polishing.