This ^
Hearing protection is something some consider only when it's too late or almost too late (tinnitus and loss of high frequencies is not cool). Don't ask me how I know.
Kids, act now.
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Hearing protection.
- Thread starter mike o
- Start date
This ^
Hearing protection is something some consider only when it's too late or almost too late (tinnitus and loss of high frequencies is not cool). Don't ask me how I know.
Kids, act now.
My experience with using IEM's for the last three years has been no loud pops or feedback (@s0c9 suggests it's because my whole band is using them).
In fact, the IEM's themselves function as very effective hearing protection because not only do they BLOCK OUT actual loud stage and room volumes, but I can choose and CONTROL the amount of loudness coming through the IEM to always keep it at safe levels.
I played for over 50 years in large and small bands before using IEM's, and often drove home after a gig waiting for the ringing in my ears to subside . . . fortunately it appears that there's no lasting damage today.
If you can, please consider using IEM's to help PROTECT your hearing - it's easily one of the BEST musician's tools I've ever come across after a lifetime of performing on stage.
In fact, the IEM's themselves function as very effective hearing protection because not only do they BLOCK OUT actual loud stage and room volumes, but I can choose and CONTROL the amount of loudness coming through the IEM to always keep it at safe levels.
I played for over 50 years in large and small bands before using IEM's, and often drove home after a gig waiting for the ringing in my ears to subside . . . fortunately it appears that there's no lasting damage today.
If you can, please consider using IEM's to help PROTECT your hearing - it's easily one of the BEST musician's tools I've ever come across after a lifetime of performing on stage.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Same thing with bike helmets. I took enough hard hits in my mountain biking days (and cracked/damaged several helmets) where I would be dead without a helmet. I still see way too many people riding bikes without them. One of those things people think isn't necessary because they feel 'uncool' wearing them. I'd rather be 'uncool' than dead.... or deaf, in the case of hearing protection.
Now in my 70's, I've been using the Westone TRU earplugs almost 20 years with great success. Our drummer lost his $200 custom made Westone's and got these after losing the custom ones and also really likes them. I usually use the -20db inserts on mine and carry an emergency set of Earasers on my keychain just in case. Sadly lost a lot of my hearing and got tinnitus years ago due to loud guitarists and drummers so whatever folks can do earlier on to prevent hearing loss is the best advice. I will add that recently began using red light therapy on my ears which has helped my tinnitus slightly - not a lot, but I will continue and hopefully see more results in coming months. It takes a while I've read to get results from red light therapy. About the same cost as a good set of earplugs so we'll see how it works out.
I've been preaching/praising hearing protection to the band for six years and only one has made the change. They just don't wanna listen (b-dum-bum
). IME it's so much easier to hear everyone else and play with "open ears".
Make sure what you buy are ear filters. Ear plugs do not provide proper protection.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Yeah, microphones dropped by inebriated singers can also cause that same "idiot pressed boost pedal at wrong time kinda issue", but that is why brickwall limiters should be set where possible.
The upper echelon wireless IEM receivers (Senn, Shure.. ) DO have built in limiters, and most of the smaller digital consoles (QSC, Yammy, Mackie, Behringer.. etc.) in use by bands also allow limiters to be set on the AUX buss feeding your IEM's if you are wired or your IEM receiver doesn't have one.
Either way, protect your hearing.. it ain't coming back once gone!
You might wanna show them my hearing test. Here is the WESTONE hearing protection.
I have used all the filters for different events. With bands ER25. For concerts Er15.
I should add I remember clearly one event that cased the most damage to my right ear. I was at a weekend recording session out in Easthampton, ny late 80's. We were in the control room listening to playbacks. They were having a good time drinking and things that keep you up late
. I was solber. The music got cranked up so much that my right rear suddenly hurt. Can't say a pop but I knew it wasn't good. After that I had pretty bad tinnitus. With age this stuff just gets worse and non reversible.
I have used all the filters for different events. With bands ER25. For concerts Er15.
I should add I remember clearly one event that cased the most damage to my right ear. I was at a weekend recording session out in Easthampton, ny late 80's. We were in the control room listening to playbacks. They were having a good time drinking and things that keep you up late
. I was solber. The music got cranked up so much that my right rear suddenly hurt. Can't say a pop but I knew it wasn't good. After that I had pretty bad tinnitus. With age this stuff just gets worse and non reversible.I've been preaching/praising hearing protection to the band for six years and only one has made the change. They just don't wanna listen (b-dum-bum
Yeah it came up in some later posts here
Will 100% set hard limits on it.IIRC They all (the who) regretted that famous smashing of the amps and the explosion on live TV. I've hear them say they were literally quite deaf just from that
I understand it was the drummer Keith Moon's fault (of course). He convinced a stagehand to fill the drums with 3x the recommended explosives,.Yeah it came up in some later posts here
IIRC They all (the who) regretted that famous smashing of the amps and the explosion on live TV. I've hear them say they were literally quite deaf just from that
s0c9
Supporting Member
Understand.. In my neck 'o the woods pretty much all the bands on my Country circuit - I've played/subbed with 6 different bands in the last 2 yrs, most of whom play top tier country venues like Billy Bob's TX - use self-contained IEM systems and don't rely on FOH for their monitor mixes. Yes, 10+ yrs ago that was an issue, but necessity being the mother of.. and all that, has pushed these bands to self-contained IEM mixers with house split to/from format.
As a result, I haven't used an amp/cab in years. Single XLR from pedalboard direct to IEM mixer, split to House (or vice versa), single XLR from IEM mixer back to my wireless IEM unit. I also have a single XLR mic cable going to the mixer.
Three XLR's.. DONE!
Subbing with those bands is easy. Show me where to connect, what mixer are you using, which WiFI network and which AUX buss has my IEM mix.
I have apps on my iPad that let me connect to the different mixers they use - Mackie, Behringer, QSC, Soundcraft, and so on.
Last night I subbed with a band (played with them before) who had a new singer IO had not played with before.
No rehearsals, just show up and do the gig! Mackie DL16S mixer, stage box.. Went great.
Yes, I realize that many, many bands don't have that configuration/luxury.
I'm glad I do cuz it's really simple and works great when one understands and uses the tech!
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Had another rehearsal last night with a band I'm subbing for later this week. This time I had my IEMs (KSZ Castors with Comply foam tips) that provide pretty good protection, and was excited to try them out (after just using ear filters for the first few rehearsals). This is my first time using IEMs.
It was not a pleasant experience. The singer is the only one who doesn't use IEMs, which means that everyone has their amps going (the electric drums go through the PA). The levels on the guitars were so hot that by moving the digital slider up just the tiniest bit from 0, they easily overpowered my bass (which in comparison needed to be cranked way up). Also, one of the guitars was noisy as hell--staticky, clicking, not a good kind of dirty. When I mentioned that, one of the other band members said they don't have that guitar in their IEM mix at all because the amp cuts through from outside the IEMs. But... isn't the noise I'm hearing going to be sent to FOH, and thus that's what the audience is going to hear? I suspect the guitarist doesn't realize it because their amp is cranked up--maybe their amp is EQ'd after the signal is sent to the mixer, or maybe their cabinet doesn't reproduce the audio as accurately as the IEMs.
The worst, though, was that all of the volumes from the amps and PAs were so high that my IEMs, even with the foam tips, couldn't provide enough protection. So I had harsh frequencies via the IEMs and a volume assault breaking through the IEMs. Kind of the worst of both worlds.
The gig is in a few days, and I'm currently just a sub (in this case, maybe in more ways than just one--hah!), so I kept quiet. It's not my place to make suggestions, particularly given how inexperienced I am. If this turns into a longer term thing, though, things will have to change. If the singer continues to refuse to use IEMs, then surely we could kill the PA and our amps and just route the mix through their own monitor?
It was not a pleasant experience. The singer is the only one who doesn't use IEMs, which means that everyone has their amps going (the electric drums go through the PA). The levels on the guitars were so hot that by moving the digital slider up just the tiniest bit from 0, they easily overpowered my bass (which in comparison needed to be cranked way up). Also, one of the guitars was noisy as hell--staticky, clicking, not a good kind of dirty. When I mentioned that, one of the other band members said they don't have that guitar in their IEM mix at all because the amp cuts through from outside the IEMs. But... isn't the noise I'm hearing going to be sent to FOH, and thus that's what the audience is going to hear? I suspect the guitarist doesn't realize it because their amp is cranked up--maybe their amp is EQ'd after the signal is sent to the mixer, or maybe their cabinet doesn't reproduce the audio as accurately as the IEMs.
The worst, though, was that all of the volumes from the amps and PAs were so high that my IEMs, even with the foam tips, couldn't provide enough protection. So I had harsh frequencies via the IEMs and a volume assault breaking through the IEMs. Kind of the worst of both worlds.
The gig is in a few days, and I'm currently just a sub (in this case, maybe in more ways than just one--hah!), so I kept quiet. It's not my place to make suggestions, particularly given how inexperienced I am. If this turns into a longer term thing, though, things will have to change. If the singer continues to refuse to use IEMs, then surely we could kill the PA and our amps and just route the mix through their own monitor?
And this is exactly the situation where I pull out the bright red David Clark muffs. If they don't care enough to turn down and start with good sound, then amplify that, then I don't care if I look goofy, or if I can't hear what I'm playing.
Living the dream. I've wanted this for decades.
I rarely have played any shows with a dedicated FoH critter and can not bring my own reliable critter on a show by show basis. For us, usually the venue's definition of sound person is the person who points us to where to set up to make sound. I never or rarely have any way to judge or listen what is happening F0H during the show so this never happens and I continue to drag around my amp and cabs. And PA.
To do it right, it appears that one has to have another person not in the band with good ears. I think y'all have more friends with ok ears than we do. Also, it really does seem that everybody in the band needs to commit to IEM or it will not work. These things would rarely happen for the gigs we see and book (yes, we are small potatoes).
Still dreaming of the day. I know it exists. I've seen the pictures. Even been to some shows. Getting the PA setup and the room pinked can be challenging enough for me (pick one) in many of these venues. It's simply a gigging lifestyle that I haven't been personally able to see coming over the horizon, yet.
<sigh> Someday, perhaps.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Sorry to hear that, but I DO KNOW it's far more common than my situation and yes, I've been there... about 15 yrs ago.
Most of the venues I [now] play have their own PA and their own FOH folks.
We bring the band, gear (often our own mics, etc.), IEM mixer and snake splitter so one side of the box goes to our IEM mixer, the other to the House (in most cases - see pic below for one example).
In one venue, we plug into the House stage boxes (they have 6+ on the stage) and THEY give us XLR lines to connect to our splitter snake (and this IEM mixer).
IEM mixer sits on the stage.
With everything labeled, it's a simple setup. Our IEM mixes remain fairly consistent from gig to gig. The main challenge is that most band members play in more than one band (I'm in 3), so input levels from their gear may need small adjustments.
We would use the same setup even if we had our own PA.
One band I subbed with last Sat night used their own PA, but the setup/config remains the same. Everything connects to the splitter snake stage box, one end goes to the IEM mixer (doubles as FOH too), the other goes nowhere.
This is what one of the setups looks like - from the front - with labels (older pic, with labels since replaced with label maker printed ones).
The splitter snake stage box is on the bottom. One end of it are those white cables to the top right of the pic going into the mixer (X32R).
The other end of the snake is coiled up behind and underneath the mixer and would connect to the House.
The other XLR rack is the MONO IEM mix output from the X32R. They plug whatever devices (wired/wireless) they use into one of those AUX outputs.
The new labels now have instrument names not numbers!
1 = Drums
5 = Bass, etc.
Yes, there's an associated expenses, but it's SO MUCH EASIER hooking this up.
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