Was playing a little dinner party on a large stage in vaulted room. Using a Behringer 410 pushed by a behringer bh4500 with a sansamp bddi (i know i know first rig), bass is Laguna Ocean. Had the cab up off the floor bout two feet. I did not mic the cab and had the volume fairly low. When playing alone things were fine. However, when playing together my sound would just fade away. If i turned amp up could hear less and less. Guys it was not a good feeling. did not want to have to play three hours like that. As luck would have it customer wanted very quiet background music so we all had to play VERY soft. Then I could hear myself. Was it the room or what? Sorry for large post. Thanks for your input.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Help for newbie in live setting
- Thread starter fowlbass
- Start date
My guess would be you lost "hearing" yourself in the house mix without monitors. Did anyone else, the crowd, the band, say they couldn't hear you? Were you in front of your rig?
Its easy to "lose" the bass without monitors.
Just a thought...
Rig works fine just as long as I was not playing with guitar player. EQ on bass was set flat. SansAmp bddi set with level, bass, drive at 12 o'clock and treble at 10 o'clock.
This was the first time to play live without bass through the monitor. Usually XLR out to board and the sound god gives a little back through the monitor. Could be that. Just strange when you stand in front of 410 and can't hear it. Sound man said he could hear me fine while band was playing. I did move the cab away from me bout 15' and that did seem to help.
This was the first time to play live without bass through the monitor. Usually XLR out to board and the sound god gives a little back through the monitor. Could be that. Just strange when you stand in front of 410 and can't hear it. Sound man said he could hear me fine while band was playing. I did move the cab away from me bout 15' and that did seem to help.
I've used a Sansamp BDDI for about 5 years and found this ...
It sounds incredible when:
Bass sound changes in the mix like no other instrument - most people don't get that; a 'sound check' on the bass really isn't much more than a line check. The real sound check of a bass has to be done in the mix because it's so different.
I found I got the best results for my setup like this:
I started doing that about 2 months ago and it's like playing an entirely different instrument I swear, I've never had so much fun playing bass in my life! I feel like a born-again bassist!!
It sounds incredible when:
You're recording, playing on your own or with very minimal 'other' sounds, or live through pa-only (no bass amp).
It sounded dull and muddy when:
In a full live mix with an AMP unless you have the presence turned WAY up (but then it gets too hissy and 'clacky'). All that beautiful 'extra' sound the Sansamp gave me would vanish and I'd be left with just a very dull and undefined sound.
Bass sound changes in the mix like no other instrument - most people don't get that; a 'sound check' on the bass really isn't much more than a line check. The real sound check of a bass has to be done in the mix because it's so different.
I found I got the best results for my setup like this:
1. Only use the Sansamp for PA (parallel output to amp, xlr output to desk).
2. Use a Boss GEB-7 equalizer to raise the mids a bit and generally 'shape' the sound.
2. Use a Boss GEB-7 equalizer to raise the mids a bit and generally 'shape' the sound.
I started doing that about 2 months ago and it's like playing an entirely different instrument I swear, I've never had so much fun playing bass in my life! I feel like a born-again bassist!!
search "phasing." It sounds like that was happening to you. I can't really explain it, but I have experienced it before.
A thing I've done with my rip-off model, the behringer BDi-21, is having a fresh set of roundwounds on the bass, crankin' presence all the way up, cut all treble, bass at 12:00 and Drive at 14:00. All this in a live setting of course. Boosted my mids on the amp a tad, and I came through clear and raw!
Even had several compliments on my bass tone that evening, it was a blast
Even had several compliments on my bass tone that evening, it was a blast
Bass sound on stage is a real can of worms and playing without monitors or PA support makes it even trickier. I wouldn't blame the problem on the equipment even if it is cheap grade "B" stuff.
It's very common for the bass sound on stage to sound like crap to the bass player while everyone in the audience thinks it sounds fine. It's equally common for the bass to sound great on stage to the bassist standing 8 feet in front of it while it sounds like crap to the audience.
In those situations, just make it sound as good as possible to the people paying the check and hope you can hear yourself adequately on stage.
It's very common for the bass sound on stage to sound like crap to the bass player while everyone in the audience thinks it sounds fine. It's equally common for the bass to sound great on stage to the bassist standing 8 feet in front of it while it sounds like crap to the audience.
In those situations, just make it sound as good as possible to the people paying the check and hope you can hear yourself adequately on stage.
Thanks for the help. I will try those settings on the SansAmp and try to boost mids on the eq, get a long chord to hear for myself how it sounds a little further away. I will more than likely never play that room again but am sure same thing will happen in a room of comparable size so better to be prepared for next time. Can you have a phasing problem without running through the board?
