"HELP".........I cant hear myself over the guitars

[flam]

I play in a metal band with three guitarists, so if you can't hear yourself with two, somebody is doing something wrong.

If you're in the right sonic space, you shouldn't need an excessive amount of volume to be heard. Finding that space can be a little difficult, especially if you have an amp that only has "mids" and no definitive control of which frequencies you're choosing. I've also noted that a P bass usually gets me buried, but ymmv with that one.

 

[Jimtoonz]

Or, get yourself one of these, and declare all-out war on the six-stringers:

Seriously, I've had cases in which I was unable to hear myself in a particular space without resorting to extreme volume levels. In those cases, switching to a different instrument did the trick, and G&L L-series basses are magicians when it comes to "cutting through". That said, I will always stop a guitarist who believes he needs tons of lows on his amp, as he would play in a solo situation. This is a guaranteed recipe for "mud".

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Ask your sound guy whether you've got enough presence in the total mix. It's nice to hear yourself, but it's critical that your audience hears you. I've had very bad experiences with my bass signal going through the monitor--uncontrollable feedback. Maybe the sound guys didn't know what they were doing, but ever since I've insisted that my amp be my stage monitor. In which case, if you can't hear yourself, tell your sound guy you're going to jack your volume, and let him deal with it. (My apologies to the two women I've met who run sound professionally ).

As for having two guitarists, I'm lucky enough to work with a pair who are very simpatico. What I really have trouble with is working with piano players. Like Miles, I tell them to sit on their left hands. That's my turf!

 

[Spirit of Ox]

Isn't this how loud rock music was invented? It all stems back to The Who. Pete and John would just battle each other for stage volume resulting in the invention of the 100 Watt Marshall amps.

 

[someguyfromNC]

I prefer two guitarist if they are decent. A good rhythm guitarist and a lead working together is hard to beat.

Hardest thing to do is find 2 guitarists who don't think they are on their way to Hollywood. Hard enough just to find one.

 

[60bass]

First off. What type of music are you guys playing? If it's metal or heavier stuff then the problem is as you said. The guitar players are running too much bottom and stepping onto your tonal area. I know from experience that a 36 and 22 watt guitar amp can be sick loud. You mentioned you're already bringing up the mids to get cutting power. That's good but maybe try different frequencies. I've had times where I thought my onstage tone was pure crap but out front it was deadly. You just never know what mid area is that magic spot. You also mentioned using ear plugs, are you guys really playing that loud? Myself I hate earplugs and in over 40 years of playing have rarely used them. IEM's though are another story. While I'm also not a big fan of those they do work well if setup and used properly. Have you considered using an IEM?

You mentioned

I don't think its a power problem ,im only using a 3rd of the power that my amp produces according to my volume dial .
im leaning toward the sonic space theory. in the past I have only played in bands with one guitarist and I have never had this problem before .

You can't really get a true idea by the volume knob. There's too many variables involved. Adding another cabinet will give you some more "sonic push". IMO you're under powered for competing against two loud guitarists. The 3.3 only does 300 watts @ 4 ohms and your single cab is already 4 ohms so adding another cab to the 3.3 is out of the question. Possibly snag a power amp and slave it off your 3.3 into another cab. On paper you should be able to easily blow 60 watts of guitar power away with 300 watts of bass power. I wish it was that easy but real world sometimes you need way more power.

Have you consulted with the sound person on your FOH mix? Maybe you can get with he or she and run a line out of the board to a small combo onstage for a bass monitor. Having a good working relationship with the sound person can be a valuable asset. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[nzscott]

The Volume dial does not work like that. It all depends on what you are feeding the amp signal wise. Take a photo of what you live amp settings typically are and tell us how you se

The Volume dial does not work like that. It all depends on what you are feeding the amp signal wise. Take a photo of what you live amp settings typically are and tell us how you set the controls on your bass. We might be able to find a different culprit.....

Heres a pic of how my amp settings are set , the pics not to good but I will list the settings too .

active fender American jazz bass with the mid slightly boosted low and treble slightly cut with pickup configuration running 2/3rds on the neck pickup 1/3rd bridge pickup ,then I run my signal into a boss bass overdrive pedal running basically dry with minimal overdrive ,just enough to give the tone a slight growl and with no tonal difference to my overall sound .then into the amp with my input gain set to 6 so the amps not clipping ,then the amps compressor set to 4 out of 12 then into the contour effect set to 4.5 out of 12, I think the contour effect sets the mid scoop , then into the bass control set at -1 then the low mid set to 0 then the high mid set to +1 then the treble set at -3 and the last gig I played my master set to 2.5 out of 10 on the dial . then into a 4ohm 4x10" cab

 

[Downunderwonder]

Isn't this how loud rock music was invented? It all stems back to The Who. Pete and John would just battle each other for stage volume resulting in the invention of the 100 Watt Marshall amps.

kinda. The bass amp became the guitar amp and bassists got bigger ones. Eventually we got SVT type power but it didn't start with 100w amps.

 

[Downunderwonder]

View attachment 923432


Heres a pic of how my amp settings are set , the pics not to good but I will list the settings too .

active fender American jazz bass with the mid slightly boosted low and treble slightly cut with pickup configuration running 2/3rds on the neck pickup 1/3rd bridge pickup ,then I run my signal into a boss bass overdrive pedal running basically dry with minimal overdrive ,just enough to give the tone a slight growl and with no tonal difference to my overall sound .then into the amp with my input gain set to 6 so the amps not clipping ,then the amps compressor set to 4 out of 12 then into the contour effect set to 4.5 out of 12, I think the contour effect sets the mid scoop , then into the bass control set at -1 then the low mid set to 0 then the high mid set to +1 then the treble set at -3 and the last gig I played my master set to 2.5 out of 10 on the dial . then into a 4ohm 4x10" cab

lose the contour. Aka the invisibility knob.

 

[swarfrat]

I've started shelving 3-6db from my guitar below 160 hz or so from what I think is "my sound" as a matter of routine. It took me a couple decades to figure out that many of the awesome "guitar sounds" I was hearing was actually the "guitar and bass" sound.

 

[60bass]

The guitarist of my current band is an absolute gem though: he asked that his track be lowered in the mix of our recently-recorded demo, saying "It's not meant to be that upfront...turn it down, it's distracting!".

NEVER let that guy get away.

 

[PotsdamBass8]

What happens if you just turn up? Does it sound overpowering in the mix? Or does it just sound too loud on its own? And as someone else suggested, how does it sound in the mix? Is it just an issue of you can't hear yourself, or is the bass getting lost in the mix? There could be a lot of things at play here, but it could also just be as simple as you're being too polite and you need to turn it up more!

 

[Biggbass]

age old problem - the guitars are too loud

 

[pappabass]

its like this, you cant hear the lead so he turns up, cant hear the drums so he plays harder, cant hear the rhythm, he turns up, cant hear the bass, he turns up, now you cant hear the lead,,& it goes on & on. I was wondering if you just need to use head phones plugged into your amp,,,,

 

[Bass'd on a true story]

I was in the band from hell for awhile. I feel your pain.

 

[swarfrat]

Forgot to add: If the (immediate) problem is you can't hear yourself...stand closer to your amp.

 

[gidbass]

I honestly just follow the drummer (and vocals to a certain extent).

Guitars are on their own to follow us!

In ear monitors are probably your best bet, that or a bigger amp. Boost mids.

I wear plugs and have no monitor and I play in a two guitarist rock band (we are LOUD). I use a GK gen 1 MB 212 and have never had it past noon. I have run into the PA, and have had to use my amp without PA support to drive the low end, and have never had any issues in any bar or outdoors. I have spent a lot of time researching and talking with others understanding "the mix".

Good Luck!

 

[bizzybass]

Once you're sure you have the correct equipment and know how to use it there's only one other possibility. Tell the guitar players to learn how to use their equipment.

 

[RichardT2112]

Reminds me of a similar situation I had while playing in a local band. Our stage setup had the BL who played lead and vocals far to the left, the sax/percussion player center stage while I shared right stage with the second guitar/keyboard player. This guy liked to play with lots of low end dialed in through some garbage SS amp. Additionally he was using a really cheap wireless which cut his highs even more.

Well at one gig the BL came to me after a set and insisted that I turn down because all he could hear from my end of the stage was low frequency rumbling and assumed it was me. I tried to tell him where it was coming from but in the end I had to turn down to the point I couldn't hear myself but at low end noise still persisted. After that set BL still complained all he could hear was the same noise coming from my end so I showed him how low I had my amp turned.

Moral of this (And TLR) Check to make sure your guitar player nearest you isn't playing space invaders with your frequency range.

BTW, that band lasted about 3 gigs and 2 months before the BL jumped ship for his other project.

 

[Timmah]

Everyone here is saying that you ought to boost mids, but that isn't always the case. I play with two bands- one is an SRV-style power trio with a single guitar, the other is a two-guitar rock band. Contrary to popular opinion on this forum, my best results have come from using a midrange-heavy tone with the trio, and a scooped tone with the two-guitars.

From your OP, it sounds like the mids aren't working. Maybe it's time to try something different in order to find your slot in the mix. I always think of sculpting a bass tone like hitting a baseball: you need to hit it where they ain't.