Help. I Think I Need A Different Amp.

[Bassmaster55]

Check out the Darkglass heads, I probably recommend it every other day on here, but for good reason! It's hands down the best amp I've ever had, you can pretty much make it sound like whatever you want and it'll sound killer! Besides getting some old school vintage amps that I've picked up since getting my Darkglass. Every other amp I had has been sold off and I have zero amp G.A.S.

Also the first version of the Darkglass Microtubes 900, which is what I have, should be within your budget, if not, the 500 watt version will be!

I originally thought about those amps, but figured it'd be cheaper to buy the X7 and grab a solid amp that was cheaper.

If I grab a Darkglass head, would that make my X7 redundant? Or does it play nice with it?

 

[Bassmaster55]

maybe i missed it, but what bass are you using with it? and do you set your tone in a V with the mids lowest, highs and lows much higher?

Kiesel Osiris headless with the alnico humbuckers.

To get a "usable" tone, I set the bass and treb at noon and the mids 10 o'clock.

 

[Bassmaster55]

Good questions -- I asked about the recording process and if OP was liking his/her direct/recorded tones

Just remembered that I did a recording awhile back where I cranked the gain to max, which darkened the amp a bit, so I cranked the treble to almost 3 o'clock. This isn't possible outside of direct recording and I was only using this sound in conjunction with a clean DI carrying the low-end. I usually double my tracks, filter them and then group them back together for further processing. So, in reality, that gain cranked PF-20T track was mixed in much lower than the DI. It was also heavily filtered (Low-pass at 4 kHz and high-pass at 500 Hz).

 

[Bassmaster55]

For smaller (and slightly pricier) class D, you might look for a used Mesa D800+

Interesting to see you suggest this. The bass player from Fit for an Autopsy uses the regular D800.

 

[Bassmaster55]

The only tube amp in my collection that is darker than my SVTs is my Ashdown CTM300.

The tone of an SVT is good to my ear, but nowhere in the ballpark of my PF-20T. Totally different animals.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I originally thought about those amps, but figured it'd be cheaper to buy the X7 and grab a solid amp that was cheaper.

If I grab a Darkglass head, would that make my X7 redundant? Or does it play nice with it?

I use an Alpha Omnicron on my board, I always have the vintage Microtubes circuit blended into my clean signal to get a really full tubey sound, ever so slightly hairy and the alpha omnicron works well with it to kick it up to a notch, it plays with pedals better than anything I've come across. I would say it definitely wouldn't be redundant, I use the amps dirt circuits as part of the amps tone, I leave the pedals to go from there!

 

[Killing Floor]

What are we talking about?

Help, I think the earth needs to orbit the sun. Help, I think cake is tasty. Help, I think David Byrne is creative. Help, I think I'll have a cup of coffee in the morning. Help I think I need a new bass amp.

 

[Kukulkan61]

You never mentioned what bass your using, that could be a factor..?

 

[Bassmaster55]

You never mentioned what bass your using, that could be a factor..?

See comment #22.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I have an Ampeg PF-20T head into an Ampeg PF112-HLF cab. I use a Darkglass X7 for when I go distorted. I play mainly rock, hard rock and metal. I don't feel like the PF-20T is giving me the right tone for these genres. It has a very distinct sound that may be suitable for other playing styles. I could be wrong. However, I'm just not sure the tone I seek is in this amp.

So, what I am asking is: What amp would you recommend that I switch to?

Thanks!

You should be doing more than fine on recordings with that rig. But, you should play a P bass.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm not sure. I just know that the mids around 500 Hz are way too pronounced on the PF-20T. So, maybe I am looking for a scooped tone???

500hz is bass mids. Standard bass mids. If you want a scooped sound, drop that knob about halfway. Boost bass and treble two knotches.

 

[Nandan]

You mentioned liking the sound of a markbass with a tube. Is it the Little Mark Vintage? That's what I play and I play metal. I actually like a fairly clean sound and just add dirt with pedals. I like the tone I get. It's warm, fat, cuts through, and I can get a little grit if I dig in. I would say if you like the sound of an amp, don't worry about the brand. Before this amp, I had a GK and an Ampeg, and I loved them both for different reasons, but wanted something less colored (GK) and more portable (ampeg).

 

[bochini]

I'm no one to give any advice, but I'm curious, could you share a few samples of your recordings? It would also be interesting if you could mention what sound in particular you're trying to achieve? It would be cool to listen to your sound, text doesn't help much.
I would be more inclined to buy recording equipment than amps if playing live wasn't in my plans, and since I'm not rehearsing with a band, I would conclude that it's lack of dexterity with the bass what's preventing me to reach my objective. I've struggled to record the simplest bass lines because I couldn't be satisfied with the quality of the sound. I don't know if this could be similar to your situation, this is my humble POV.
I don't know who said it but it went something like "I bought all the amps and there I was, still playing the same boring riffs I always played, the only magic is in your hands".
Maybe play with a pick, play with a Dunlop Jazz III Max Grip, don't use 2.0mm or thicker, don't use Primetones (weak sound ), maybe Tortex Jazz III, JP, Kirk, something JazzIII, after a few hours every thick plectrum starts weighing a lot, plus they get the bass out of tune if you're a bit careless. I'm just saying, go from the small details to the biggest ones, I would try different picks instead of different amps first.
Anyway, I hope you achieve your desired sound, but I hope more that you enjoy the process.

 

[P Cheen]

Fender Rumble combo. Maybe the 100W.

 

[MarkA]

Interesting to see you suggest this. The bass player from Fit for an Autopsy uses the regular D800.

I'll try and reply to everything.

I've tried doing all of those EQ tricks that you mentioned. I've tried using the Captor and some high quality OwnHammer IR's. It's the "in the room" tone I'm not happy with. In the DAW, with thousands of cab IR's to choose from, Pro-Q2 plugin doing some heavy lifting EQ-wise...I can get a tone that sounds good and fits within the song's mix. Takes a lot of steps to get there, but that's not really what I'm here to discuss. I want a good tone that I can jam out to "in the room". The PF-20T doesn't do it for me.

The tweeter has been turned off from day 1 on my cab. When I say that there's too much treble, it's actually everywhere. Cab, all outputs and DAW. It gets way too clicky, in a bad way.

I don't want to rely on my X7 or any other pedals. I want a good foundational tone that I like and then build off of that. If I like my core tone, then it should follow that the X7 or any other pedals will sound good on top with some tweaking.

I'm nowhere near to maxing out the gain or volume. 9 o'clock on both gain and volume are good for my room. I can bump up the gain to 10 o'clock, but that's pushing the loudness for me.

As far as GK, I have an official GK Amplification plugin. It has the MB150, 800RB and 2001 RB models. I've found that they sound similar to my PF-20T. So, the actual amps I probably want to stay away from.

I have the Overloud Mark Studio 2 plugin and I really like the Little Mark Tube model. Before I had an actual amp, I found myself using that plugin a lot. So, maybe that will help with what I like. I've played some Markbass amps in GC ages ago and dug them. Though, they are kinda pricey compared to other brands in that range. I don't see too many saying good things about them. So, I figured something must be afoul and stuck with the more known brands (Ampeg).

I would say that I just want a nice thick meaty tone that's solid and not midrangey, but also has some clarity to it, but not clickity clack treble. Geez, I hope that makes sense. Ha ha!

Kiesel Osiris headless with the alnico humbuckers.

To get a "usable" tone, I set the bass and treb at noon and the mids 10 o'clock.

I admit that some of your answers surprise me, but that's okay.

The GK models sounding like your PF-20T, for one thing -- I think that you can get GKs and Ampegs in the same territory -- it's possible to get a warm, round sound with the GKs -- but natively, they should be more scooped and bright than the Ampeg. I'm also surprised that you're finding the Ampeg too bright and "clicky-clacky," even after messing with the EQ. I haven't played that specific amp (PF-20T) or cab, but it's not what I would've guessed.

The Markbass heads I've played (the Little Mark II, in particular) are pretty "flat" -- not a lot of baked-in voice. That's not to say that there's not some color, but I don't think it comes from a baked-in frequency response curve. This makes me think that (leaving your cab out of the equation for the moment) if you like the sound of your bass recorded direct, they might be decent amps for you. Another thing about the Markbass that you might find useful is their VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) control. Basically, it's like a passive tone control on a bass (which is something that I'm guessing your onboard preamp lacks). Depending on the amp and the instrument, I often find one of those more useful than a three-band EQ -- the typical treble band on an EQ doesn't shape the top-end in the same way. (You might even consider adding one to your bass, if it doesn't have it.)

I do like the idea of, as you put it, "getting a good foundational tone [sans pedals] and building off of that." I don't do much recording (I do record sketches and ideas) and when I do, it's very simple -- straight into Garage Band, either plugging in the bass directly or taking a feed from whatever amp or preamp I'm playing through. I almost never apply any plugins or effects -- no EQ, even. I'm sure that if I were mixing a song (or someone else was mixing something I played on), they'd be using compression, HPF, EQ, etc. -- and recording is definitely not my forte -- but I like to think that I can get a good basic sound pretty, uh, basically.

I also don't play metal (not that I never would) and I'm playing clean (bass --> amp) 99% of the time. In fact, on a few (not many) occasions, I've run a tube DI with a line-level output straight into a poweramp and played a gig that way -- passive instrument, no EQ.

I don't know if my experience will apply to you, but I think that the idea of stripping way down and starting with a good basic sound (I might start with a clean sound, even if you don't use that much -- the Markbass amps, btw -- those I know -- won't do any overdrive, so you'll have to use them as clean platforms) is a good approach, even if you plan to play with some degree of dirt/OD most of the time.

As for the D800+ vs. the regular D800, I only mentioned it because you seemed to be having some EQ/tone-shaping issues and the "+" has a more flexible EQ.

There are often Markbass Little Mark IIs and IIIs in the classifieds for decent deals. There's also an F500 (or was, yesterday), which is less warm-sounding than the Little Marks but has two semi-parametric mid bands of EQ. I find it to be somewhat sterile-sounding through a hi-fi cab but it can work really nicely with a cab that has a little paper-cone breakup.

 

[Wasnex]

The tone of an SVT is good to my ear, but nowhere in the ballpark of my PF-20T. Totally different animals.

Some of the videos of the PF20T do seem fairly bright. Actually almost all of the videos I found sound awful IMHO.

Something to consider, the speaker often makes more of a difference to the sound than the amp does. Do you have access to other speakers you could try? Pretty sure if you plugged a PF20T into an 810E, it would sound a lot more like an SVT. Not that I am suggesting you get an 810; just trying to point out that problem may be more related to the PF-112HLF than the PF20.

 

[MarkA]

I'm no one to give any advice, but I'm curious, could you share a few samples of your recordings? It would also be interesting if you could mention what sound in particular you're trying to achieve? It would be cool to listen to your sound, text doesn't help much.
I would be more inclined to buy recording equipment than amps if playing live wasn't in my plans, and since I'm not rehearsing with a band, I would conclude that it's lack of dexterity with the bass what's preventing me to reach my objective. I've struggled to record the simplest bass lines because I couldn't be satisfied with the quality of the sound. I don't know if this could be similar to your situation, this is my humble POV.
I don't know who said it but it went something like "I bought all the amps and there I was, still playing the same boring riffs I always played, the only magic is in your hands".
Maybe play with a pick, play with a Dunlop Jazz III Max Grip, don't use 2.0mm or thicker, don't use Primetones (weak sound ), maybe Tortex Jazz III, JP, Kirk, something JazzIII, after a few hours every thick plectrum starts weighing a lot, plus they get the bass out of tune if you're a bit careless. I'm just saying, go from the small details to the biggest ones, I would try different picks instead of different amps first.
Anyway, I hope you achieve your desired sound, but I hope more that you enjoy the process.

Some of the videos of the PF20T do seem fairly bright. Actually almost all of the videos I found sound awful IMHO.

Something to consider, the speaker often makes more of a difference to the sound than the amp does. Do you have access to other speakers you could try? Pretty sure if you plugged a PF20T into an 810E, it would sound a lot more like an SVT. Not that I am suggesting you get an 810; just trying to point out that problem may be more related to the PF-112HLF than the PF20.

Yeah, I am often a proponent of "Look to the cab!" but I've got no experience with that particular 112. Then, the OP also said that the direct sound from the amp was bright.

The 210AV is a cab that's cited as capturing some of that 810 vibe in a small package -- haven't played one with a PF head, but with the Micro-VR (once in a store, once at a jam session) I did not find the cab to sound overly bright or clacky.

I will say, OP, that I like the sound of my instruments, recorded direct, pretty well. A nice preamp can help -- and I'd much rather hear them in open air, through a nice cab (that's part of the bass instrument, IMO), but even direct, through a decent set of headphones, for my tastes, they sound alright. If they didn't, I'd look to changing that -- strings, setup, technique, pickups -- all the things commonly cited -- can have an effect. If you dig what your bass is putting out, though, by all means proceed to the next step.

Good luck!

 

[nilorius]

If you want to start a new alife and have gear for practising, rehersaling and gigging, go for 2x 112 cabs and Aguilar tonehammer 500.

 

[Wasnex]

Then, the OP also said that the direct sound from the amp was bright.

Good luck!

It's pretty normal for a DI signal to be bright. Also, the PF-112HLF seems fairly mid-rangy and bright in the videos I have heard. A darker, bassier cab may suit the OP's needs better.

 

[Ryno1330]

Wow, I dunno. I don't play in those styles, but it seems like more of those players are using higher power class D or solid state heads, then a pedal (just like your DG) to get their distortion on. What about a Darkglass Microtubes 500? I imagine you might be able to find a used one for close to the same price you'd get for your PF20.

I have a like new one for the lowest price you'll find used in the classifieds if you go this was OP. (shameless plug).