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HELP! Lost in music theory (been playing for 6 years)

Juanchioo

Guest
Jul 19, 2013
91
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Hi guys, i tried reading and watching videos but im kind of lost.

I started playing bass 6 years ago, but i went to class just a few months, and i just learned songs, in the class and i keeped covering songs the 6 years after, a few weeks ago i didnt even knew the notes, now i know some, and i learned the modes, i just dont know what to do with them.

I would say my technique is good, i can play almost any song, with just a little practice, and i can do some things by ear, but if i want to improvise, or create some riff for a song, etc, then im really lost.

I dont know where to start, and i cant afford a teacher at the moment.




SO: what should i start with learning first? and in what order should i progress? what exercices should i be doing?


Thank you! sorry if my english is not very good
 
Learn your chord shapes first. All music, from the Bass perspective, is built on chords.This will give you your basic note selection from which most of your note choices come.That covers harmony and your left hand( assuming you play right-handed ). Now learn to count the meters. This is where the groove comes in and it's the most important thing. Without rhythm you don't have music. That covers your right hand. Lastly, combine the rhythm and harmony in steady,rock-solid time,every time you practice and perform.
 
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Hi guys, i tried reading and watching videos but im kind of lost. I started playing bass 6 years ago, but i went to class just a few months, and i just learned songs, in the class and i keeped covering songs the 6 years after, a few weeks ago i didnt even knew the notes, now i know some, and i learned the modes, i just dont know what to do with them.
Let's talk a little about what you could do with those modes. Modes are great for lead solos, but, IMO a waste of time for what we spend 95% of our time doing -- accompanying the melody providing harmony and rhythm for the song. We can do this much better by playing chord tones, aka, playing notes of the active chords. Why?

Little side trip into harmony. For the melody line, let's call that the treble clef; and the harmony line, and let's call that the bass clef; to harmonize and sound good together those two lines should share some of the same notes. How many notes? One per measure will get harmonization, two per measure would be better and three to four are really not necessary, it's like gravy, if you like gravy pour it on. How many like notes you use is left up to you; it's your bass line. Course you have to know what notes make up a chord. So let's start there. You'll want to bookmark this; http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

I would say my technique is good, i can play almost any song, with just a little practice, and i can do some things by ear, but if i want to improvise, or create some riff for a song, etc, then im really lost. I dont know where to start, and i cant afford a teacher at the moment. SO: what should i start with learning first? and in what order should i progress? what exercices should i be doing? Thank you! sorry if my english is not very good
Let's start with how to create a bass line from the notes of the active chord. After that we will get into something else.

To do this I would first have to know the chords being used in the song. To do that I rely upon fake chord sheet music, aka chord charts. And before getting into all this, are you using fake chord sheet music now? If so read on, if not say so and we will help with how to play using a chord chart. Remember our little side trip into harmony. If we play the notes of the active chord good things are going to happen. Think of it this way; the song writer has inserted chords where needed to harmonize the melody, if we play notes of that chord we too harmonize the melody -- and sound good. Find the chords and play notes of the chord. I'm sure you have heard this, that's what the old guys were getting at when they said to play the notes of the chord.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. Find a C note on your 3rd or 4th string and put the box's "R" over that note; then play the spelling for the maj7 chord. That spelling is listed below and is R-3-5-7. So if you play some of those notes under a Cmaj7 chord you will harmonize with what is happening in the song. That's it, not a step for a stepper. Find the active chord and play notes of that chord. Now take heart. The root of the chord will bring harmonization, i.e. one note. So pounding out C notes to the beat of the song will work, a root-5 will work better and if you have room the complete R-3-5-7 of course can be used.

Basic Chord spellings
  • Major Triad = R-3-5
  • Minor Triad = R-b3-5
  • Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5
7th Chord spellings
  • Maj7 = R-3-5-7
  • Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
  • Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
  • ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
  • Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7
See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.


Generic Notes - for your bass line. I assume your time signature is 4/4 or one quarter note per beat.
  • The root, five and eight (R-5-8-5) are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5. So a bass line of R-5-8-5 is going to be the first bass line I recommend you get into muscle memory. Play the chord tones of the Cmaj7, now the Gmaj7, then the Dmaj7. Yep you are going to have to learn where the C, D and G notes are on your bottom two strings. After you can do that around the circle of 5ths then take on another generic bass line - dare I say riff.........
  • The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
  • The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
  • The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
  • The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
  • The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6's. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
  • The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don't linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
  • In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
  • Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.
OK that's enough. This should get you started playing from chord charts and knowing why you are playing the notes you played. This may take you a week or so to get it under your fingers - take the time. Baby steps, a little today more tomorrow.

See what you can do with this:
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0092997&ref=google It's OK to dumb down the chords, i.e. that Em7(b5) Em7 (R-b3-5-b7) is good enough for right now. The Dm/F on slash chords we play the slash or F (R-3-5-3) and the treble clef guys get the Dm. Just roots at first; main thing is see what you can do composing your own bass lines.

Let Google find you some backing tracks that show the chord names and see what you can do, for example use these search words: Backing tracks showing chords.
 
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Let's talk a little about what you could do with those modes. Modes are great for lead solos, but, IMO a waste of time for what we spend 95% of our time doing -- accompanying the melody providing harmony and rhythm for the song. We can do this much better by playing chord tones, aka, playing notes of the active chords. Why?

Little side trip into harmony. For the melody line, let's call that the treble clef; and the harmony line, and let's call that the bass clef; to harmonize and sound good together those two lines should share some of the same notes. How many notes? One per measure will get harmonization, two per measure would be better and three to four are really not necessary, it's like gravy, if you like gravy pour it on. How many like notes you use is left up to you; it's your bass line. Course you have to know what notes make up a chord. So let's start there. You'll want to bookmark this; http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm


Let's start with how to create a bass line from the notes of the active chord. After that we will get into something else.

To do this I would first have to know the chords being used in the song. To do that I rely upon fake chord sheet music, aka chord charts. And before getting into all this, are you using fake chord sheet music now? If so read on, if not say so and we will help with how to play using a chord chart. Remember our little side trip into harmony. If we play the notes of the active chord good things are going to happen. Think of it this way; the song writer has inserted chords where needed to harmonize the melody, if we play notes of that chord we too harmonize the melody -- and sound good. Find the chords and play notes of the chord. I'm sure you have heard this, that's what the old guys were getting at when they said to play the notes of the chord.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. Find a C note on your 3rd or 4th string and put the box's "R" over that note; then play the spelling for the maj7 chord. That spelling is listed below and is R-3-5-7. So if you play some of those notes under a Cmaj7 chord you will harmonize with what is happening in the song. That's it, not a step for a stepper. Find the active chord and play notes of that chord.

Basic Chord spellings
  • Major Triad = R-3-5
  • Minor Triad = R-b3-5
  • Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5
7th Chord spellings
  • Maj7 = R-3-5-7
  • Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
  • Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
  • ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
  • Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7
See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.


Generic Notes - for your bass line. I assume your time signature is 4/4 or one quarter note per beat.
  • The root, five and eight (R-5-8-5) are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5. So a bass line of R-5-8-5 is going to be the first bass line I recommend you get into muscle memory. Play the chord tones of the Cmaj7, now the Gmaj7, then the Dmaj7. Yep you are going to have to learn where the C, D and G notes are on your bottom two strings. After you can do that around the circle of 5ths then take on another generic bass line - dare I say riff.........
  • The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
  • The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
  • The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
  • The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
  • The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6's. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
  • The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don't linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
  • In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
  • Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.
OK that's enough. This should get you started playing from chord charts and knowing why you are playing the notes you played. This may take you a week or so to get it under your fingers - take the time. Baby steps, a little today more tomorrow.

See what you can do with this:
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0092997&ref=google It's OK to dumb down the chords, i.e. that Em7(b5) Em7 is good enough for right now. The Dm/F on slash chords we play the slash or F and the treble clef guys get the Dm. Just roots at first; main thing is see what you can do composing your own bass lines.



thank you so much! you where much help!

i got all, and been playing for 2 hours, i have still left to play with the song you linked, and get more familiar with the formulas, but ive playing then so i get to hear what they sound like


one thing i didnt get is the chord chart thing

again thanks a lot!
 
thank you so much! you where much help! i got all, and been playing for 2 hours, i have still left to play with the song you linked, and get more familiar with the formulas, but ive playing then so i get to hear what they sound like

one thing i didnt get is the chord chart thing

again thanks a lot!

Chord chart on Happy Birthday:

G....................C...G
Happy Birthday to you,
G........................C
Happy Birthday to you,
..........................C......F
Happy Birthday to Juan Chioo
F.........C..........G...C
Happy Birthday to you.
OK it's in the Key of C. How do I know that? Well the F is F not F# and the song ends in C. Those two things tell me the song is almost certain to be in the key of C.

So I take a black marks-a-lot and mark over the A, B, C's with Nashville numbers.
Key of C =.............. C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
Nashville numbers = 1, 2,. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

G becomes 5
C becomes 1
F becomes 4

5....................1...5
Happy Birthday to you,
5........................1
Happy Birthday to you,
..........................1.....4
Happy Birthday to Juan Chioo
4.........1..........5...1
Happy Birthday to you.​
Then I use my handy dandy major scale box:


Major Scale Box.

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Since this song is in the key of C I place my box's R on a C note, 4th string 8th fret and now I am ready to use the chord chart for Happy Birthday.

I sing the song , under my breath, and start with the 5 note over "Happy" then pound out 5's with the beat till I get to the next chord change word, i.e. the 1 over the word "to" gets a 1 note and then quickly grab a 5 for the word "you".

That's playing from chord charts 101. I use Nashville numbers if that is confusing just skip over Nashville numbers and use the C, F & G notes.

On simple songs like Happy Birthday just roots pounded to the beat works very well, on more advanced songs you probably will have room for some R-5's or R-8's and perhaps even a full R-3-5-7. Remember; where is the 5? From any note the 5 will be up a string and over two frets, or down a string same fret. The 8 is right over the 5. That 7 is up two strings and over one from the root. It all still fits...

Have fun.

 
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Chord chart on Happy Birthday:

G....................C...G
Happy Birthday to you,
G........................C
Happy Birthday to you,
..........................C.....F
Happy Birthday to THE NAME
F.........C..........G...C
Happy Birthday to you.
OK it's in the Key of C. How do I know that? Well the F is F not F# and the song ends in C. Those two things tell me the song is almost certain to be in the key of C.

So I take a black marks-a-lot and mark over the A, B, C's with Nashville numbers.
Key of C =.............. C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
Nashville numbers = 1, 2,. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

G becomes 5
C becomes 1
F becomes 4

5....................1...5
Happy Birthday to you,
5........................1
Happy Birthday to you,
..........................1.....4
Happy Birthday to THE NAME
4.........1..........5...1
Happy Birthday to you.​
Then I use my handy dandy major scale box:


Major Scale Box.

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Since this song is in the key of C I place my box's R on a C note, 4th string 8th fret and now I am ready to use the chord chart for Happy Birthday.

I sing the song , under my breath, and start with the 5 note over "Happy" then pound out 5's with the beat till I get to the next chord change word, i.e. the 1 over the word "to" gets a 1 note and then quickly grab a 5 for the word "you".

That's playing from chord charts 101. I use Nashville numbers if that is confusing just skip over Nashville numbers and use the C, F & G notes.

On simple songs like Happy Birthday just roots pounded to the beat works very well, on more advanced songs you probably will have room for some R-5's or R-8's and perhaps even a full R-3-5-7. Remember; where is the 5? From any note the 5 will be up a string and over two frets, or down a string same fret. The 8 is right over the 5. That 7 is up two strings and over one from the root. It all still fits...

Have fun.​

Thanks a lot! i will be playing with this later today!
 
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There is always different software that might help you. There are a bunch of small Apps for smartphones, or bigger programs for your computer. I actually happen to be a software supporter for one of the bigger softwares for your computer. It's called EarMaster. Basically it helps you develop your ear training capabilities, which includes a lot of music theory as well. The excercises are made to help you progress through all the different aspects of ear training and music theory. You can read more about it and download a free trial here: earmaster.com. It may or may not be relevant to you, but i think you will find it very helpful.
 
Like op, I was overwhelmed by tons of information on the Internet...I knew most of the scales, arpeggios, and some jazz standards. It didn't sound wrong but it didn't sound good (like I cannot outline the changes)

Then I studied with Jeff Berlin (guess he is a controversial educator, but anyway he didn't teach anymore) he taught start from chord tones, and some readings. I start to use chord tones solo on simple standards and I start to hear the color of each chords... The he gave me approach notes to chord tones exercise (like chromatic to chord tones while the chord tones stay on the strong beats) and some triad pairs exercises.

I think chord tones is a good place to start, as they are exactly what the chord symbols represent. Just use them messing around with some of the songs u know, u will start to hear the color of the chords.

There are many video of Jeff Berlin on YouTube (after i went study anyway...............) teaching about the exact stuff that ive mentioned above , u can check them out !
 
Copied form another post:

Theory is confusing to a beginner and much of it is only marginally useful (ahem modes).
The progress of study *should* be:
  • the 12 intervals
  • the major scale construction
  • the minor scale construction
  • the chords of the major scale (aka "Harmonizing the Major Scale")
  • maybe some other scales
  • then whatever catches your fancy
Explanations of most of this can be found in the PDF linked in my signature.
Keep in mind that "knowing" one of these means knowing , in order of importance:
  • the sound
  • the fingering
  • the common name/names
  • the notation
( those super - talented counter examples that "don't know any theory" actually do know it: they have mastered the sound and the fingering.)

How much of it do you need to know?

Assuming the goal is to play with other people successfully the majority of the time,
You should aim know enough to follow a chord chart or lead sheet (not necessarily sight reading the melody) with minimal preparation or on the fly.

That means encountering a chord symbol (C, Amin7, G7 ect) or sequence of them,
and being able to decipher what notes are involved in those chords,
and use that information to construct a bass line.
 
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For me this order makes sense:
- Names of notes on fingerboard; combined with memorizing/understanding why there is only a half-step between B and C and between E and F.
- Note values and timing information in musical notation
- Major scale and the related Harmonic Minor scale; this allows the understanding of intervals and chord creation
- Intervals
- Major and minor triads
- Extensions to major and minor triads (just 7 and 9 for the most part, with a mention of 11 and 13)
- Augmented and diminished triads
- Modes of the major scale