• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Help me find that great slap sound please

Apr 18, 2015
3,136
3,495
65
I'm not hurting for equipment. But perhaps I've not got the right equipment... but I don't think so. I think I just don't know how to properly dial in a good slap sound. I'm sure my technique has something to do with it, but I really want to be able to explore "proper" slap sounds.

Basses? I've got Ibanez BTB675, Yamaha TRBX605FM, Squier VM70 with Aguilar pickups (passive) and Fender Jazz 5 (active.. waiting for Aguilar noiseless pickups to arrive).

Amp: GK MB112. For a short while I had a TC Electronics BG250-112 which has a tweeter, and I think it would have been easier on that amp. The GK doesn't have the tweeter.

My basic EQ setup is flat, so I'm open to suggestion one where to start turning dials. I've tried dialing out mids, dialing up trebles, etc, etc... but to my ear I'm not getting that crisp slap sound (sort like a dialed back Seinfeld sound). To be honest, I don't even yet know what a good or not-so-good slap sound is yet.

I'm open to an education on the subject. TIA
 
I'm not hurting for equipment. But perhaps I've not got the right equipment... but I don't think so. I think I just don't know how to properly dial in a good slap sound. I'm sure my technique has something to do with it, but I really want to be able to explore "proper" slap sounds.

Basses? I've got Ibanez BTB675, Yamaha TRBX605FM, Squier VM70 with Aguilar pickups (passive) and Fender Jazz 5 (active.. waiting for Aguilar noiseless pickups to arrive).

Amp: GK MB112. For a short while I had a TC Electronics BG250-112 which has a tweeter, and I think it would have been easier on that amp. The GK doesn't have the tweeter.

My basic EQ setup is flat, so I'm open to suggestion one where to start turning dials. I've tried dialing out mids, dialing up trebles, etc, etc... but to my ear I'm not getting that crisp slap sound (sort like a dialed back Seinfeld sound). To be honest, I don't even yet know what a good or not-so-good slap sound is yet.

I'm open to an education on the subject. TIA


There's quite a bit of variety in slap sounds. If you want something similar to Seinfeld, low action and fresh round wound strings with a bit of compression should get you in the ball park. A lot of slap players use a scooped sound. To create the scoop, try dialing up the contour control on your MB112.

Here's a song I really like...unfortunately I think it came out a bit too late to rise very high on the charts.

Mix of finger style and slap with envelope filter. Pretty sure this was played with a Music Man Stingray.

 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla
Are you using both pickups?
Got low action?
Roundwounds?

Just low enough so no buzz if I don't pluck too . Roundwounds- check. Both pickups- usually.

There's quite a bit of variety in slap sounds. If you want something similar to Seinfeld, low action and fresh round wound strings with a bit of compression should get you in the ball park. A lot of slap players use a scooped sound. To create the scoop, try dialing up the contour control on your MB112.

Here's a song I really like...unfortunately I think it came out a bit too late to rise very high on the charts.

Mix of finger style and slap with envelope filter. Pretty sure this was played with a Music Man Stingray.



Good song.

I am starting to get some decent sounds with slap, but not quite what I envision in my head. Perhaps the struggle is that my amp doesn't have a tweeter like TCE amps or doesn't have the basic sound like Hartke or quite the right pickups. The easiest time I had getting close to that sound was when i demoed an Ibanez SR505. For whatever reason that bass has a significantly different sound than any of my basses. If it were for the soft body that scratches if you look at it, I might have gone that route. Maybe I should have. I don't know.
 
Just low enough so no buzz if I don't pluck too . Roundwounds- check. Both pickups- usually.



Good song.

I am starting to get some decent sounds with slap, but not quite what I envision in my head. Perhaps the struggle is that my amp doesn't have a tweeter like TCE amps or doesn't have the basic sound like Hartke or quite the right pickups. The easiest time I had getting close to that sound was when i demoed an Ibanez SR505. For whatever reason that bass has a significantly different sound than any of my basses. If it were for the soft body that scratches if you look at it, I might have gone that route. Maybe I should have. I don't know.

If your bass has a pickup blend or two volumes, try setting it so one of the pickups is slightly dominant. I would be very surprised if the MB112 is not capable of a decent slap sound. Here's a slap demo that compares the MB112 with the BG250.
 
Last edited:
If your bass has a pickup blend or two volumes, try setting it so one of the pickups is slightly dominant. I would be very surprised if the MB112 is not capable of a decent slap sound. Here's a slap demo that compares the MB112 with the BG250.


I guess Cooper liked the GK better. I dunno.

Is this what you're looking for?

Try a Fender Jazz.


I have a couple of Jazz basses. My 5er is temporariliy sidelined waiting for pickups. I've got some Aguilar 5J-Hc's coming and will string it with Sunbeams. It's already got an Audere preamp.

I did play a Laguna Ocean today that was impressive and kind of gave me a nice slap sound and was easy to play. Felt a lot like my Yamaha, but just a bit heavier. Interestingly I played it first through a BG250, then a Mark Bass. I preferred the BG250. Strange, no?

The interesting (silly?) thing is that I actually had both the GK and BG250 and Rumble 100 all here and at the time I went with the GK, largely because of it's size and output. I was kind of put off by the BG250's "toneprint" gimmick which I found for bass amps is kind of worthless and amounts to a marketing feature.

I appreciate the sample files because I am really mostly in search of tones to emulate. I find it amusing that i never paid particular attention to how folks just seem to get the right tone for the music until getting more serious about bass. Now that I'm in the discovery mode, perhaps
 
I guess Cooper liked the GK better. I dunno.

That's the impression I got as well. I thought the BG250 would have been the better choice except it was overdriven to much for slap. As you commented earlier, the tweeter added a special something. But it may be possible to get a decent slap tone with the GK as well if you set the controls the correct way.

I appreciate the sample files because I am really mostly in search of tones to emulate. I find it amusing that i never paid particular attention to how folks just seem to get the right tone for the music until getting more serious about bass. Now that I'm in the discovery mode, perhaps


When I was a young player I was always on the hunt for tone. I bought a really powerful parametric EQ and was always fiddling with it to try and get my sound to match whatever recording I was working on. You can't get all the way there with EQ, but I think many people would be surprised by just how close you can get. I think eventually most top players learn to let go of chasing perfect tone and just play. The character of your playing will come through in the way you pluck the notes and shape their decay, and you will sound like you regardless. Don't get me wrong I still fiddle with my tone controls a bit, but it's more to balance out the tone then to get a particular sound. But you are on the path of discovery and I would encourage you to enjoy the journey wherever it takes you.


You may be interested in videos related to Louis Johnson (Brothers Johnson), Victor Wooten, Bill (Buddha) Dickens, Flea (Red Hot Chili Peppers), Mark King (Level 42), Larry Graham, Marcus Miller.
 
That's the impression I got as well. I thought the BG250 would have been the better choice except it was overdriven to much for slap. As you commented earlier, the tweeter added a special something. But it may be possible to get a decent slap tone with the GK as well if you set the controls the correct way.

...The character of your playing will come through in the way you pluck the notes and shape their decay, and you will sound like you regardless. Don't get me wrong I still fiddle with my tone controls a bit, but it's more to balance out the tone then to get a particular sound. But you are on the path of discovery and I would encourage you to enjoy the journey wherever it takes you.

The nuance of plucking and thumping is what I'm trying to sort out now. Mechanically I don't have any issues from being ABLE to do it in different ways. I'm just not sure what works best for different sounds yet- COUPLED with the EQ/voicing issues. To use thumping as an example; I can thump INTO the string, I can thump THRU the string, I can thump heavy, light, rebound (or not) and any manner. Slapping happens so fast and in such a smaller space that it is diffcult to read what others are doing. How hard do you thump? Light or heavy? Where is the best place on the strings to do either?

And then I'm watching Cooper and I noticed something: Most tutorials provide the example of rotation from forearm as if you're "opening a door knob". But to watch Cooper do it, he does that rotation on the thump, but then he does a lifting away as he plucks... and I can see that's both fast and effective....[if I may digress for a moment]...

FWIW I am a Level III certified ski instructor. I took the Level III exam SIX TIMES and failed five of them. Why? BECAUSE THE COACHES WERE INSTRUCTING ME ONE WAY AND DEMONSTRATING IT ANOTHER. And somehow they never spotted my bad mechanics, causing me to fail the exam. One day an examiner coach that we visited in another division straight up showed me how I was doing it wrong and how they were teaching it wrong... I practiced, went to the next exam and passed without a sweat. BTW... These were 3 day exams! Since then having passed the test I was free to teach as I like and pretty much "re-wrote the book" (for myself and students). [OK, I'm done digressing... back to bass].

It's probably time to go take some bass lessons.
 
The nuance of plucking and thumping is what I'm trying to sort out now. Mechanically I don't have any issues from being ABLE to do it in different ways. I'm just not sure what works best for different sounds yet- COUPLED with the EQ/voicing issues. To use thumping as an example; I can thump INTO the string, I can thump THRU the string, I can thump heavy, light, rebound (or not) and any manner. Slapping happens so fast and in such a smaller space that it is diffcult to read what others are doing. How hard do you thump? Light or heavy? Where is the best place on the strings to do either?

And then I'm watching Cooper and I noticed something: Most tutorials provide the example of rotation from forearm as if you're "opening a door knob". But to watch Cooper do it, he does that rotation on the thump, but then he does a lifting away as he plucks... and I can see that's both fast and effective....[if I may digress for a moment]...

FWIW I am a Level III certified ski instructor. I took the Level III exam SIX TIMES and failed five of them. Why? BECAUSE THE COACHES WERE INSTRUCTING ME ONE WAY AND DEMONSTRATING IT ANOTHER. And somehow they never spotted my bad mechanics, causing me to fail the exam. One day an examiner coach that we visited in another division straight up showed me how I was doing it wrong and how they were teaching it wrong... I practiced, went to the next exam and passed without a sweat. BTW... These were 3 day exams! Since then having passed the test I was free to teach as I like and pretty much "re-wrote the book" (for myself and students). [OK, I'm done digressing... back to bass].

It's probably time to go take some bass lessons.

I take your point. Unfortunately we talk about slap as if it's one consistent technique, but it's not. If you look at a player like Victor Wooten and break down what he is doing, it's actually integrating several discrete techniques into one fluid style. Of course Victor is a bit of a freak and quite exceptional...even if some people think what he does with slap equates to noisy wankery. FYI I think he is incredibly musical.

Ultimately I think you will find that you will learn different aspects of playing from different people, but come to your own unique way of doing things. Part of this is because we think a bit different and have a bit different physiology, so what works for one person may not work for the next.

If you study for an extended time, it's likely that you will need to find different instructors to learn different aspects of playing; unless of course, you find someone who is truly a master who you really click with. I believe both Victor Wooten and Bill Dickens have some decent and relevant instructional material on YouTube. I have studied some of it in the past.

I am by no means a slap monster. Single thumb slap and pull offs with index and ring fingers came naturally to me, but this technique has some pretty severe technical limits. I have since studied using left and right muting and ghost notes to make percussive sounds; double thumb; and flamenco style plucking and pops that uses thumb, index, middle and ring finger. IMHO it's a bit tricky to effectively integrate all of these techniques into one fluid style because they require different hand positions and shapes, and also different ways of anchoring the hand. I haven't figured it all out, but I can do some cool stuff.

I think what most separates my level of competence from someone like Victor Wooten or Bill Dickens is discipline and level of obsession. Especially with Bill Dickens I get the feeling that he will practice something until his fingers are literally bleeding, and then practice some more. I don't have a long enough attention span to practice like this. Between the two, IMHO Victor is the more musical player, but Bill is an absolute beast. I actually feel like a lot of Victor's playing builds on what Stanley Clarke did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spin Doctor
Your gear is fine. And it sounds like your studying good technique. If you post a clip of you jamming it may be easier to evaluate. It's not about the tweeter, but a good bright sound helps.

My bet is your closer than you realize.

Seinfeld licks were on a keyboard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex
Your gear is fine. And it sounds like your studying good technique. If you post a clip of you jamming it may be easier to evaluate. It's not about the tweeter, but a good bright sound helps.
My bet is your closer than you realize.

Seinfeld licks were on a keyboard.
Seinfeld on a keyboard? Seriously? Ok... wow.
I haven't picked up much slap material yet. I bought the Federico Malaman slap course and found SOME of it useful, but his lack of English skills left some 'splainin that needed to be done. I'll leave it at that. I'll see if I can pull out my mics and lay down a track or two. I'm pretty much in "excerpt land" as most of the playing I do happens when I sit down at a gig and they put music in front of me. All I gotta do is read :). Mostly musical theater and worship (not gospel, sadly... love that stuff).


...Ultimately I think you will find that you will learn different aspects of playing from different people, but come to your own unique way of doing things. Part of this is because we think a bit different and have a bit different physiology, so what works for one person may not work for the next....unless of course, you find someone who is truly a master who you really click with. I believe both Victor Wooten and Bill Dickens have some decent and relevant instructional material on YouTube.

I hadn't heard of Bill Dickens before but glad you pointed me at him. WOW, what a monster. So I'm watching his video and as he shows how he plucks, I see him pulling DOWN on the string. Hmmm... something I hadn't considered and did not or could not spot on the beginning of the video (which blew my mind, btw... I wanna play like that!). What I can't tell is how hard he's plucking. If it is a firm as it looks- it looks a bit painful until you get DEEP callouses!

 
I hadn't heard of Bill Dickens before but glad you pointed me at him. WOW, what a monster. So I'm watching his video and as he shows how he plucks, I see him pulling DOWN on the string. Hmmm... something I hadn't considered and did not or could not spot on the beginning of the video (which blew my mind, btw... I wanna play like that!). What I can't tell is how hard he's plucking. If it is a firm as it looks- it looks a bit painful until you get DEEP callouses!

I think one of the mistakes people make is using too much strength with slap technique. When you watch some of Bill Dickens tutorials it looks like he's using a lot of strength, but when he is playing it looks very relaxed. IMHO you need to find balance. It may feel really good to wail on the instrument, but IMHO it will limit how fast you can play if you put too much energy into it.

Although I respect Bill Dicken's obviously stellar technique, there is no way I could use his training philosophy. Neither my mind nor body respond to this sort of mechanical training regimen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Element Zero
I think one of the mistakes people make is using too much strength with slap technique. When you watch some of Bill Dickens tutorials it looks like he's using a lot of strength, but when he is playing it looks very relaxed. IMHO you need to find balance. It may feel really good to wail on the instrument, but IMHO it will limit how fast you can play if you put too much energy into it.

Although I respect Bill Dicken's obviously stellar technique, there is no way I could use his training philosophy. Neither my mind nor body respond to this sort of mechanical training regimen.

I agree... I get better tone when I'm not hitting strings so hard. I'm working on a lighter technique on all my instruments. I'm finding I can get just as much thump sound with a light thump as a heavy one. Plucking? Not sure yet. I didn't get into Dicken's training regimen yet. I have adult ADD and can only watch 5 minutes of video at a time :).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex
Sometimes, it more or less depends on the frequencies your boosting/cutting. Strings can make quite a difference. Light gauge stainless work well for some. Also and this is something I think most people overlook, it the acoustic sound of your instrument interfering with what you’re expecting out of your amp. Try using headphones instead and you’ll open your ears to a whole new world.
 
Sometimes, it more or less depends on the frequencies your boosting/cutting. Strings can make quite a difference. Light gauge stainless work well for some. Also and this is something I think most people overlook, it the acoustic sound of your instrument interfering with what you’re expecting out of your amp. Try using headphones instead and you’ll open your ears to a whole new world.

I've experienced the string thing but I don't think I'm ready to go to light gauge until my actual playing demands more slap. Perhaps I'll experiment with them at some point. I hadn't thought of using headphones to isolate the amplified sound and take out the acoustic sound, though I do sometimes use headphones at night. I'll have to try that later this morning. Thanks for the tip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Element Zero
I've experienced the string thing but I don't think I'm ready to go to light gauge until my actual playing demands more slap. Perhaps I'll experiment with them at some point. I hadn't thought of using headphones to isolate the amplified sound and take out the acoustic sound, though I do sometimes use headphones at night. I'll have to try that later this morning. Thanks for the tip.

Headphones take the acoustics out of the equation and also ensure you hear the full range of the instrument. Many bass speakers filter and shape the frequency response of the bass. Another factor is speakers have variable dispersion characteristics. At low frequencies they are essentially omni-directional, but as the frequency increases, the sound starts beaming out in cone shape in front of the speaker. So if you set the speaker flat on the floor, you're not going to hear the upper mids and treble coming directly from the speaker...you may hear this frequency band after it has bounced around a bit.

My personal approach is typically to elevate my speaker and aim it at my ears. This increases the ratio of direct/indirect sound reaching my ears, ensures I hear the full range the speaker is capable of producing, and also shapes the low mids in a way that I like. Invalid Link Removed

The low mid shaping occurs from boundary cancellation. Basically when a speaker is near a reflective surface there will be maximum cancellation at the distance equal to 1/4 wavelength between the speaker and surface. So if you elevate your speaker, boundary cancellation is caused by the sound waves reflected from the floor.

Here is the logic of the 1/4 wavelength distance. In total the wave travels a 1/4 wave length from the speaker to the floor, and 1/4 wavelength back for a total of 1/2 wavelength. In other words a 180 degree phase shift has occurred by the time the the wave has traveled the full distance. It's important to know that wavelength varies with frequency. See attached.

If the speaker is on the floor the reflection is essentially instantaneous, so the wave sums (gets louder). This is called half space loading or acoustic coupling with the floor. You might want to look into what happens when you are against a wall 1/4 space loading, or in a corner 1/8 space loading. How Do Boundaries Affect Loudspeakers?
 

Attachments

Headphones take the acoustics out of the equation and also ensure you hear the full range of the instrument. Many bass speakers filter and shape the frequency response of the bass. Another factor is speakers have variable dispersion characteristics. At low frequencies they are essentially omni-directional, but as the frequency increases, the sound starts beaming out in cone shape in front of the speaker. So if you set the speaker flat on the floor, you're not going to hear the upper mids and treble coming directly from the speaker...you may hear this frequency band after it has bounced around a bit.

My personal approach is typically to elevate my speaker and aim it at my ears. words a 180 degree phase shift has occurred by the time the the wave has traveled the full distance. It's important to know that wavelength varies with frequency. See attached.

I agree. At home it is up 18" off the ground (see photo). On gigs I use an amp stand. I glanced at the technical stuff and as my eyes immediately glazed over I realized I'm not ready to be that sophisticated yet :). I did practice a bit with headphones today. As a matter of fact, the headphones I have (Audio Technica AT M50's) were purchased because of the 4 headsets I purchased (returning 3) these were the ones that most faithfully reproduced the speaker's sound (to the extent that any headset can).

I think I'm pretty close on getting a decent slap sound with my Jazz 4 (on the left) with potential for the other two. The BTB 675 has NYXL's that are a couple months old. In spite of it being a pretty big bass I'm surprised at how well I can get around on it. I'm wondering what a pickup upgrade would do for it? Suggestions?

GK_L6_amps.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Element Zero