Help me find the growl!

[eboogie]

Hello, first official post here. Been absorbing loads of information over the past year on here and this is truly a great site. I am a guitar player (still am?, haha) turned bass player and have been searching for my tone in a band for the better half of 8 months.

Some background about the band, four piece with two loud guitars, hard hitting drummer, and me. Guitar setups are fender 60watt 4x10 with a les Paul jr and the other a vintage ampeg 100watt 2x12 with a telecaster. Garage rock/punk/heavy rock vibes. Some inspiration sounds are dinosaur jr, Qotsa, leatherface, peg boy, Melvin’s.

I am looking for a growly bass tone that still has good low end. I have been able to obtain it here and there but can’t seem to nail it down.

We played an outdoor festival that had a back line ampeg 8x10 and I brought my vintage ampeg V4b and ran a broughton sv pre pedal with the gain up and was insanely happy. That was it. That’s the tone I want.

Only, we don’t play that many large shows and I don’t wanna lug around an 8x10.

I recently purchased an ampeg v4b reissue hoping I could eliminate the sv pre pedal since it had the gain knob. Regardless I think I am good on amps. It’s cabinets I need help.

Currently am running a vintage 4x12 v4 cab with stock speakers, sounds ok sometimes, sometimes sounds too flubby. I also have two genzler bassarray 15’s that I haven’t tried with the reissue v4b (couldn’t use with the vintage v4 cause the over hang) but plan to try it soon.

Finally the question, what cabinet can I use to get that growl but not be so heavy or too loud for smaller gigs? A 4x10, 6x10, barefaced 6x10? I feel I’ve kinda just been throwing poopie at the wall to see what sticks but my head seems to keep going in circles. Ideal scenario I just have a tuner bass and the amp is my sound (ok maybe 1 fuzz pedal), in the band I play guitar in I have waaaay too many pedals, so looking for the opposite.

Ohh, also playing p’s one with round wounds and one with flats and dimarzzio p pickups (which seems to be the one) thanks in advance to this awesome community.

 

[Lowbrow]

I’d try the Genzlers, first off.
And I get it, I’m OCD about that stuff, too. But you’ll know if a similar speaker can get you the sound.

 

[eboogie]

I’d try the Genzlers, first off.
And I get it, I’m OCD about that stuff, too. But you’ll know if a similar speaker can get you the sound.

Tried them with an orange terror bass and sounded good. But it wasn’t that warm, gritty, vintagey, tubes ubey goodness. Thanks for the comment will try that tomorrow!

 

[agedhorse]

This would be a good application for either the 4 on the Floor or CrashBox overdrive/distortion pedals. It allows you to define the overdrive separately with control over the various parameters and then blend it back into the clean path to retain the low end plus most of the dynamics.

@JGR had an entire thread about what can be done with these pedals that might be helpful, you might look for it in the TB effects forum.

 

[JGR]

I would think either one or the pair of your Genzler 15’s will cover any size gig, and with the pair you can scale while maintaining the same tone once you dial it in.

I would highly recommend you pick up a Crashbox4 which I think would get you what you are looking for - it has worked exceptionally well for me - even through studio monitors and powered PA cabs with really clean pre amplification - due to the low and high pass filters. And I suspect it would be a joy to dial in with those array cabs.

Also, try some SS DR Low Riders or EB Cobalts.

 

[SharpCat]

Kick everything up another notch by switching to 916 pickups Neo P pickups. They are hot and gnarly.

 

[TOOL460002]

EBMM Stingray with DR's.

 

[rodl2005]

It's all in the mids.

I'd think the 2 15s would sound great, if you like em.
I use a Bassman 115 with my V4B RI mostly. Or sometimes a Berg HG410.

Both get growly if EQ'd to.

I never use pedals for it, just adjust gain and volume depending on overall volume needs

 

[jvdb]

An Ampeg 410he is basically a half 810e. I’d start there. Skip the 410hlf and 610hlf. They sound completely different than the 810e.

I almost always play an 810e Heritage with a vintage V4B. But for small show I have a 410he at the ready. I’ve changed the speaker cloth to match my amp. Looks pretty sweet.

I don’t like using many pedals too. So I have a tuner and a Bassrig Supervintage by Origin Effects to use as a DI out and maybe add some drive when I can’t crank up my amp to achieve break up.

Good luck!

 

[Gervais Cote]

A good 212 cab wouldn’t be flubby but I don’t know if that would be loud enough for you.

If you have a chance, try a Darkglass 212 cab with your amp, you could be surprised………..

 

[logdrum]

No one has addressed the volume that those 2 guitars bring 60 watt + 100 watt, Is the V4B even adequate. at 100 watt? Sure it would growl when trying to match the guitar volume. Growly speakers is a guitar thing but probably not something we should seek on bass first. So yeah you probably are on track with a more hifi speaker like Genzler and Bergantino.. Motice that agedhorse recommended an EQ pedal for your growl requirement.

 

[agedhorse]

No one has addressed the volume that those 2 guitars bring 60 watt + 100 watt, Is the V4B even adequate. at 100 watt? Sure it would growl when trying to match the guitar volume. Growly speakers is a guitar thing but probably not something we should seek on bass first. So yeah you probably are on track with a more hifi speaker like Genzler and Bergantino.. Motice that agedhorse recommended an EQ pedal for your growl requirement.

I actually recommended a very specific O/D pedal along with the amp’s eq. There are filters on the pedal that help define the O/D.

 

[eboogie]

No one has addressed the volume that those 2 guitars bring 60 watt + 100 watt, Is the V4B even adequate. at 100 watt? Sure it would growl when trying to match the guitar volume. Growly speakers is a guitar thing but probably not something we should seek on bass first. So yeah you probably are on track with a more hifi speaker like Genzler and Bergantino.. Motice that agedhorse recommended an EQ pedal for your growl requirement.

It seems to be loud enough. If not I have a splitter with phase switch and can run both v4’s. Which is something I hope I get the chance to do.

 

[eboogie]

I actually recommended a very specific O/D pedal along with the amp’s eq. There are filters on the pedal that help define the O/D.

For the amp eq, I have the mid switch in the lowest setting (to the left) is the “growl” potentially more in the upper mids (middle setting)?
I like the lows with the mid rocker switch to the left. So maybe keep that there and try one of those Genzler pedals they sounded good in the demos. If you had to get just one, which would you recommend?

And, dang, this forum is frigging awesome thanks for all the help ya’ll!

 

[andruca]

Thick crunch is my kinda' tone, both for fingerstyle and using a pick. Usually SansAmp/whatever blendable overdrive + some more compression will do the trick (SA/OD will already compress some, depends on gain/blend)... IF you're giving such chain proper technique (consistent punchy plucking/picking) from a bass properly set up for the task. These are #1.

For setup I say low action so strings bang frets when you dig in, but not anywhere near any point where notes will choke, it still needs to be able to sustain and sound clean under moderate right hand pressure. Can't give you an action number, depends how you play, strings, etc., you'll figure it out.

Also, each bass has a way it WANTS to be played. I can't emphasize this enough. I've deprived myself of many years of P-bass joy just because I negligently ignored how to get what I wanted out of them for decades. Try different right hand placement, different attacks and intensities, just feel how your particular bass as a whole wants to be played to sound/feel like you want.

 

[logdrum]

I actually recommended a very specific O/D pedal along with the amp’s eq. There are filters on the pedal that help define the O/D.

I knew that was your intention. You just don't recommend because it was your design or product and indirectly you are a subject matter expert for Rumble and that is pretty inclusive and super helpful.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Thick crunch is my kinda' tone, both for fingerstyle and using a pick. Usually SansAmp/whatever blendable overdrive + some more compression will do the trick (SA/OD will already compress some, depends on gain/blend)... IF you're giving such chain proper technique (consistent punchy plucking/picking) from a bass properly set up for the task. These are #1.

For setup I say low action so strings bang frets when you dig in, but not anywhere near any point where notes will choke, it still needs to be able to sustain and sound clean under moderate right hand pressure. Can't give you an action number, depends how you play, strings, etc., you'll figure it out.

Also, each bass has a way it WANTS to be played. I can't emphasize this enough. I've deprived myself of many years of P-bass joy just because I negligently ignored how to get what I wanted out of them for decades. Try different right hand placement, different attacks and intensities, just feel how your particular bass as a whole wants to be played to sound/feel like you want.

This 100%
You can have all the toys in the world but if what’s happening before the pickups isn’t dialed in you are just making the job harder.
As the above post says set-up and technique is important as well as the strings you use.
My set-up is just like the above post describes. Clean on a light touch and growl and clank when I dig in.

 

[rodl2005]

This would be a good application for either the 4 on the Floor or CrashBox overdrive/distortion pedals. It allows you to define the overdrive separately with control over the various parameters and then blend it back into the clean path to retain the low end plus most of the dynamics.

@JGR had an entire thread about what can be done with these pedals that might be helpful, you might look for it in the TB effects forum.

That Genzler 4 on the floor pedal has piqued my interest before.
Love to try one