• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Help me ID this Bass (Cremona?)

getBAK

getBAK

Supporting Member
Sep 21, 2006
2,124
3,939
San Jose, CA
www.levijack.com
#1
I need some help figuring out the origin of the upright bass

My family purchased this from Stephen Derek Violins in Cupertino CA ~ 1989. It's supposedly a 3/4 scale Japanese bass. Inside is a sticker that says Cremona, and there don't seem to be any other identifiable marks. The bridge was custom made by Hideo Kamaoto in the mid 1990's, so not original
The bass has been toured with and is in pretty rough shape, I'm deciding if I should do some rehab on it.
Any insights are greatly appreciated


IMG_0586.jpeg


IMG_0585.jpeg


IMG_0587.jpeg


IMG_0584.jpeg
 
#4
Honestly - I've had it since it was new, and it's been through extensive touring, Jazz, Blues and Orchestra work... it's been been a great instrument. The initial setup work was shoddy, but Kamimoto took care of that for me 30 years ago.
At this point I'm curious what I have, and debating a major restoration effort
 
#6
The tuning machines may not be original. The OP’s bass doesn’t have the massive outside linings associated with Chinese Cremona basses, but that could mean anything. I’d be curious to see if the neck is set into a neck block, or if it sits on top of a “neck block” like the Chinese basses so many know and loathe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ross Kratter
#7
Hey everyone thanks for the attention. I know this instrument needs a lot of rehab and any background I can find helps to tell me how fiscally sound this is to do.

KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
The tuning machines may not be original. The OP’s bass doesn’t have the massive outside linings associated with Chinese Cremona basses, but that could mean anything. I’d be curious to see if the neck is set into a neck block, or if it sits on top of a “neck block” like the Chinese basses so many know and loathe.
Click to expand...
I'm confident to say the tuners are original. The Bass was new when purchased ~ 1988

Rebop said:
Any chance we can see the neck heel/button area?
Click to expand...

More photos attached below

IMG_0589.jpeg



IMG_0590.jpeg



Did my best to get a photo of the inside of the body and sound post through the F-Hole here


IMG_0594.jpeg


IMG_0592.jpeg


The old label was for Stephen Derek Violins - the shop that sold it. Apparently Stephen Derek died ~ 10 years ago, so can't ask him
 
Last edited:
#11
Nicks and scrapes all over the instrument. some of it is pretty ugly. Nothing major structural I think. But need to fix these to stop further degeneration
 

Attachments

  • EE1E5996-F844-43F4-996D-00759E930D4F.jpg
    EE1E5996-F844-43F4-996D-00759E930D4F.jpg
    995.4 KB · Views: 19
  • 8034BE23-C9DC-4DC8-A52F-FB24ECC40952.jpg
    8034BE23-C9DC-4DC8-A52F-FB24ECC40952.jpg
    988.2 KB · Views: 24
  • 3837D6D1-13CF-49ED-9CB7-6E5481026638.jpg
    3837D6D1-13CF-49ED-9CB7-6E5481026638.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 20
  • DAF0FF55-818C-4970-B97A-942754CC9681.jpg
    DAF0FF55-818C-4970-B97A-942754CC9681.jpg
    961.7 KB · Views: 21
  • 7ED80F3E-A724-4A49-9522-39D308E0CA64.jpg
    7ED80F3E-A724-4A49-9522-39D308E0CA64.jpg
    999.2 KB · Views: 21
#12
getBAK said:
Well. That's disappointing, but not surprising
I wonder if it's worth doing some rehab on it...
Click to expand...
We're not talking about monetary value if this is a family instrument. It is much more valuable than whatever money it could be sold for. Among many of us, especially since this instrument has been in your family since '89, those marks are honest wear, even family "mojo".

That said, a good look-over by a luthier who specializes in double basses would be smart, he or she could then identify anything that really should be addressed before this instrument begins its musical life with you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ross Kratter and Lee Moses
#13
Don Hergert said:
We're not talking about monetary value if this is a family instrument. It is much more valuable than whatever money it could be sold for. Among many of us, especially since this instrument has been in your family since '89, those marks are honest wear, even family "mojo".

That said, a good look-over by a luthier who specializes in double basses would be smart, he or she could then identify anything that really should be addressed before this instrument begins its musical life with you.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. Regardless of instrument, you rarely get the money back on improvements you make on a double bass. It sounds like you are happy with the instrument and plan on keeping it for a long time. Resale doesn't have to be your primary consideration. If fixing it up would give you exactly what you want, I don't see any problem with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AGCurry, Ross Kratter and Don Hergert
#14
Yeah, the bass didn't suddenly get worse. If it's been a good musical companion to you, there's no reason to think any less of it.

Scorned as Timber, Beloved of the Sky (1935) by Emily Carr – Artchive

www.artchive.com www.artchive.com

Depending on your needs and financial situation: put a little (not a lot) money into the functional stuff and get it set up. Or, play it into the ground while you save your pennies, and maybe something else will come along at the right moment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ross Kratter and Lee Moses
#16
There was a Japanese bass brand called Cremona from the 60s until the 90s. Mostly student level instruments. This has a lot of the hallmarks of one of those. The idea that it's a Chinese Cremona seems a bit silly to me, since you bought it before those basses existed, or at least were imported to the US. The label is quite different from what I've seen in these basses before, but I've only seen ones sold in Japan. Maybe they had a different label for export, or it was something decided on with the distributor. Maybe they didn't want Made In Japan on there at the time...

KungfuSheriff seems to have a pretty negative view of your bass's construction, but there are loads of these basses around with the necks still holding just fine, including this one after 37 years, so I don't think I would use that reason to rule out fixing it up a bit.

Some pictures of Japanese Cremonas: Let Me DuckDuckGo That For You - LMDDGTFY (select Images)

This Japanese "Showa Era" bass enthusiast's page might also be of interest: 東保光Hikaru Toho｜note
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RSBBass
#18
Brent, are you saying I’m unfamiliar with an instrument I’ve personally owned and played for over a year and you didn’t, as well as photos other luthiers have shared with me while resetting the necks on these instruments?

Just because there were still Yugos on the road a few years ago doesn’t mean they were well-made cars.
 
#20
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
Brent, are you saying I’m unfamiliar with an instrument I’ve personally owned and played for over a year and you didn’t, as well as photos other luthiers have shared with me while resetting the necks on these instruments?

Just because there were still Yugos on the road a few years ago doesn’t mean they were well-made cars.
Click to expand...
Not saying that at all. But the owner of this bass bought it in 1989, and at that time was told it was a Japanese instrument. This totally fits with the timeline of the Japanese Cremona brand, and the first I ever heard discussion of the Chinese ones wasn't until years later. I think it would be great if someone could find out when the Chinese brand started being sold. It might clear some things up for the OP. If the Chinese brand of Cremonas was being sold in the US in 1989, and the labels for them matches the one in his bass, then I'd say that's pretty solid evidence of what he has. On the other hand, if the Chinese basses weren't exported until 1998 or so, it's probably not what he has. So I hope someone will contact the company and find out.

Edit: Well, there you go. Thanks Martin.
From the Saga website: The Cremona brand was established in 1981 by Saga Musical Instruments in San Francisco, California
and the logo is what's on the OP's label. I stand corrected. Maybe the OP should ask SAGA where they were being made in 1989, but I'd guess they have no connection to the Japanese brand.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back