Help me stop throwing money away

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by akagilligan, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. akagilligan


    Mar 22, 2014
    I've come to this board for many answers. Pedals mainly. I've wasted more money than I care to think about. Really there is no forum that deals with how I play my acoustic guitar. AGF and TGP have resulted in many dead ends, not their fault, mine really.

    Gilmour acoustic or Monte Montgomery is the closest I can come to describe how I play. There is a WF Rat on my pedalboard if that tells you anything. The pedalboard preamp journey is done except for a few tweaks.

    These guys are killing me on the Monitor. Started with QSC. Plenty loud, but as a monitor it was lacking Wrong speaker and dispersion. Acoustasonic was in the right direction and Ultrasound just couldn't handle the signal. Everything fell very short.

    I hope to buy new or else the next step would have been old SWR California Blonde. I'm looking for a combo amp that can handle the grit, lower frequencies and not kill my acoustic sound. My reason for asking here is because the overlap between acoustic and bass amps while bass amps can handle more of what I'm having trouble getting an amp to handle.

    I think I'm looking for a 1x12 combo with tweater, but worry the wrong choice will kill the tone and don't know what kind of tweater pairs best for overdrive with fuller frequency response.

    I'd be very grateful for any input or experience. I'm seriously down about the wasted money sending back my third sure fix.
  2. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player Inactive

    Nov 13, 2009
    Somewhere on the Alaska Panhandle (Juneau)
    Endorser: Plants vs. Zombies Pea Shooters
  3. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    IMHO tweeters and overdrive don't pair well at all. Not only does it sound way too bright and tinny to my ears, but it can kill tweeters by overloading them. That said, I've known a small handful of folks who like it, but they're clearly in the minority. If you're one, never mind, but if you're wondering why your OD sound isn't working out the way you hoped, maybe looking at the tweeter's role in it would be prudent.
  4. Dave W

    Dave W Supporting Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    Westchester, NY
    I'm confused.

    Are you playing an acoustic bass or acoustic guitar?
  5. akagilligan


    Mar 22, 2014

    The amps aren't handling the bass or growl as a monitor. QSC took it, but wasn't very musical up close.
  6. Acoustic guitar - as in acoustic guitar or DB, or electric acoustic bass?

    EDIT: Ok I see you're playing acoustic guitar.

    So is this a PA monitoring problem that you're having, and if not, which amp are you using now, and where is it located on stage compare to you?
  7. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    You need to put some sort of high roll off after thee rat, it will put a bunch of frequencies out that will sound horrible when its on, but you want coming out your amp when playing clean. Usually electric players use speakers with a roll off to do that, but it will spoil the acoustic sound.
  8. experimental bassist

    experimental bassist

    Mar 15, 2009
    Not sure how much power or volume you need, but I recently bought an Ampeg BA112 as an easy grab and go for my rehearsals and my smaller gigs.

    I knew it had a great tone on bass as I had demo'd a lot of smaller bass amps during my recent shopping, but was pleasantly surprised at how well it sounded with my electric guitar as well once I had the amp at my home.

    It's only 50 watts, and it doesn't have a tweeter (which I agree with above posts about tweeters and distortion not playing nice together), but it is EXTREMELY bright and responsive, it's priced right, and makes a great electric guitar amp.

    At 50 watts some would say it's marginal power for bass, although it's perfect for what I bought it for.

    But 50 watts is plenty for most guitar work and does get very loud with my six string, which incidentally in a blues context I prefer my guitar tone rather clean, crisp, deep, with a bit of grit when I dig in, which this amp delivers all by itself without a pedal.

    Also I could argue that a very high powered rig with accordingly powerful drivers may be too stiff to capture all the nuances of an acoustic guitar at stage monitor volumes, although that may be a can of worms and I'm sure others may have different opinions, it's a philosophy that has served me well.

    I buy enough amp for my needs but I avoid overkill like the plague because 1. I don't like to waste money and 2. I play in bands that keep stage volume low enough to not use earplugs and 3. I like to drive an amp at or at least near its potential because that's what I think sounds good.

    Anyway, I digress, but I would encourage you or anyone else for that matter looking for a small tone machine for bass - or guitar - to at least demo the little BA112, it may be just the ticket.

    Good luck.
  9. I play acoustic 12 string on occasion.(An Ovation with built in PU.) Forget the tweeters , you don't need them. They just give an acoustic a harsh sound. You can EQ just about any amp to get all the highs you need. I use a Yamaha 100 watt bass amp with good results. I have also used a Peavey mark 6 with built in chorus. Keep in mind that acoustic equipment is much more susceptable to feedback than regular electric guitars. Where you put the guitar in relation to the speakers has a lot to do with it. If you are using PA support I have found that mic'ing a small decent amp works better than going straight into the board.. I have also played the 12 string through my SVT cl but just around the house. Sounded pretty good though. If you are competing with a band you want a pretty high watt amp , that way you don't have to get as loud to push the sound out.
  10. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Tweeters working properly should only give a harsh sound if something else is making it, usually piezos run into too low impedance is the theme with acoustic guitars.
  11. To help you feel better about your addiction - keep in mind that it's only expensive if you hoard. Sure, you'll lose something each time you buy/sell equipment but the losses aren't that great once you get past the initial investment or trade-up (e.g. moving to expensive/boutique).

    As an example - I invested in a bunch of old school gear when I first started playing, most of it Peavey. Once I got a better sense of my needs and tastes, I moved to smaller more modern gear. The net to do the conversion was fairly small as long as I got rid of the old stuff.

    If you're a hoarder, you probably need help that's beyond my qualifications.
  12. I'll help you stop throwing money away. Give it to me! ;)

    Seriously though, good luck on your quest. I know about nothing when it comes to acoustic guitars and that stuff. I'm sure some great, knowledgeable folks here on TB will be happy to help. (JimmyM already has!)
  13. BbbyBld


    Oct 13, 2005
    Meridian, MS
    Monte plays Trace Acoustic. Have you tried them. A lot of the players who use them do so because of the way they sort of crunch at high volume.
  14. One thing you need to notice is that what bass players look in an amp/cab is different of what a guitar player expect.

    First, many modern bass guitars have on board preamp. So, these basses do not depend too much on the amp to shape the sound. If you look into the modern stuff, you will notice that the design goal for the bass cab is to have a flat response (i.e. In order to not color the sound).

    Imo, in an opposite way, guitar amps are designed to color the sound, as an atempt to mimic the old school sound.

    Second, bass amps and cabs are designed to withstand the low frequecies. Low frequecies requires a lot of power. Thats why we see in the same gig the guitar player with a 100W amp and the bass player with a 600 W amp. So, most traditional bass gear tend to be very heavy (now we have class D amps, which is compac and light weight).

    So, if you wish to try a bass amp for your guitar, I would advise you to look at vintage style bass amps, because these ones tend to introduce more color to the sound and have less high frequencies capabilities. You may look at some Ampeg vintage style combo.

    Wish you good luck.

  15. bnolsen


    Jan 30, 2014
    denver area
    you can easily demo this amp at guitar center. For bass IMHO the 112 has the cleanest sound of the BA series I checked (did side by side comparisons with ba110 and ba115 using an old very worn fender pbass they had used, the pickups were still great).
  16. RickenBoogie


    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    As for an amp for acoustic guitar- look at the Fishman Loudbox series. Seriously.
  17. bassbombs84


    Dec 26, 2008
    What about running a clean amp, AND a dirty amp. Switch between them with an a/b box. I think this is the ticket for you
  18. akagilligan


    Mar 22, 2014
    Thank you

    Going to look into the Ampeg and Trace Eliot

  19. BrentD


    Jun 7, 2008
    bassbombs84's advice is good. Another option would be an amp modeler or one of those Boss pedals that sounds like a Fender amp.

    Run the rat into, say, a Boss '59 Bassman pedal and use them in a loop that you can engage and disengage.