Help me with my el-cheapo home PC setup.

[Stupid Jerk]

I'll comb through past threads and glean whatever I can... but I figure I may as well posit my query. I should note that I'm limited to USB... so nothing that only works with Firewire. Anyways, I need four things.

- A way to record bass and guitar onto my computer. I reckon my best bet is that little box from Line 6. It's that piece of external hardware (red in color) where you plug your geetar directly into it... and it has all kinds of amp models and effects and stuff... and then you run it into your computer and it has all the software and stuff.

Here, in case you're still drawing a blank....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-TonePort-UX2-USB-RecordingModeling-Interface?sku=249701

Any better ideas? Or will this do me? Remember, I'm a bloody moron when it comes to this kind of stuff. Baby steps, you know....

- Drums. I guess I have to get what they call a "drum machine" and program my beats. I would have to spend years learning the drums to be good enough to back myself up the old fashioned way (i.e., with actual drums), and I want to start recording now.

Also... here's where I'm worried the most because I'd be futzing with some computer to produce the beats from out of empty space... as opposed to relying on my own fingers/limbs to make it happen. Would I only be able to crank out a repetitive beat (i.e., "loops")? Because that's not all I want to do. I want to be able to throw in all kinds of weird improvised syncopation, weird/abrupt time signature changes, crazy fills and wildman ape-crap solos (like that one track on Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"), etc. etc. et al. Would a computer thingy be able to deliver all this?

Should I get some kind of software program? Or some kind of external box thingy that'll plug into my computer? What're some good'n'cheap ones?

- Vocals. This is where it gets tricky because my voice box doesn't have a USB port. What's a cheap/easy way to input the vocals... and how much do I have to worry about background noise? This would be done in my living room, where my computer is, basically.

- I need a way to integrate (or rather, to "mix") all of the above. If I'm using, like, all kinds of weird different software as opposed to one single program, will this prove to be a problem? What'll do the trick for me? Also... I'd want to program the beats first. Would I be able to get my beats to playback while I'm laying down bass/guitars through the Line 6 box thingy? And then, would I get all that to playback while I'm doing the vocals? I can't rightly fly blind, you know.

I'm not all super-anal about pristine sound quality like some legendary sound engineer working with Fleetwood Mac back in 1974. Hell... the music I make would be considered intolerable barf by most ordinary humans.

I just want to be able to get all this stuff (guitars, bass, vocals, programmed beats) integrated onto one track - track by track - and make some album-length project, and have it not sound like it was recorded in mono on a boombox in a metal trashcan. (Think any number of hardcore punk bands from the early 1980s recording onto some decrepit 4-track they got from a pawn shop... if they were even that technically savvy.) I mean... who said it can't be "punk rock" if the record doesn't sound like sh*t?

Remember, I'm a dummy. You can probably see that I don't know what I'm doing at all.

Edited to add: I just noticed the sticky. I'll comb through it... but remember, I am this level of moron.

Edited again to add: I went through the sticky and I can hardly make heads-or-tails of anything. Hey, this could end up being a legendary thread... if y'all can actually manage to school a complete moron like me! Let's start reeeeeaaaaally sloooooowwwwwwwwww....

 

[Pruitt]

- A way to record bass and guitar onto my computer. I reckon my best bet is that little box from Line 6. It's that piece of external hardware (red in color) where you plug your geetar directly into it... and it has all kinds of amp models and effects and stuff... and then you run it into your computer and it has all the software and stuff.

Here, in case you're still drawing a blank....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-TonePort-UX2-USB-RecordingModeling-Interface?sku=249701

As far as vocals go, if you get the Line 6 TonePort you linked to, it has 2 XLR inputs with phantom power. You can use those to input your mics into when tracking vox.

 

[these_go211]

using either a drum machine or software drums, once you learn how it works, you'll be able to program whatever time signatures, fills, etc, that you want. a program like BFD or DFH are very powerful programs that allow a lot of flexibility. there is likely to be a bit of a learning curve with it but once you cross it you'll be off flying.

the tone port has xlr inputs for a mic. getting a basic mic like a shure sm57 or 58 would be a good place to start. it's a good all around mic that you could use for voice, acoustic guitars, or mic'ing an amp should you choose this route somewhere down the line.

seems like the line6 thing would work perfectly for you!

 

[Stupid Jerk]

Thanks guys! Leave it to Line 6 to throw a bone to morons like me.

Drums... what would be a good software program? Or... errrrrr... what do BFD and DFH stand for and where can I get it/them? And would I be able to import my beats easily enough into the Line 6 software stuff in order to mix it with the (bass)guitar(s) and vox? I'd wanna do the drums first and then lay down the strings over that (with the drums on playback as I lay it down, so I can hear my own beat and all... I guess that isn't too much to ask), and vox last.

Oh, and once the percussion's there... would it be better to lay down the rhythm guitar or bass first? Or is it just preference?

 

[Seattle_BassMan]

For drums I highly suggest Drums on Demand ( http://www.drumsondemand.com ). These are loops that are laid out in a very logical (musical) fashion such as Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, etc. They sound great and are very easy to use.

For an integrated Home Recording Software I would recommend Cakewalk Sonar (perhaps the "lite" version would work for you).

The Line 6 Toneport that you mentioned should work just fine. I have the version that is built into a mini keyboard (KB37), which is essentially the same thing and it works well. I use it whenever I'm on the road so that I can record in the hotel rooms

Don't worry too much about the noise. Some people freak out about it, but unless you producing a mega-millions record most of the noise is buried in the mix. You could also set a noise gate within your Recording software to try and eliminate even more if you need.

For me, the drums has always been my biggest impediment to recording. Once I started using Drums on Demand, that all changed. However, if you want a little more direct control over the drums you could also use an MAudio Trigger Finger along with EZDrummer software (which can be hosted as a virtual instrument in most Recording software). This is a good combination. EZDrummer can also play back midi drum tracks as well (which can be found all over the place).

Hope this helps....

 

[Seattle_BassMan]

Here's the way I usually record, maybe this will help:

1. Determine Tempo
2. Setup a click track in Cakewalk Sonar (or ProTools)
3. Record a scratch track with Vocals and Rhythm Guitar
4. Record the Bass Track
5. Start adding basic drums using Drums on Demand
6. Record a good Rythm Guitar track
7. Record a good Vocal Track
8. Add other instruments such as lead guitar, piano, etc
9. Add any harmony vocals.
10. Add effects and adjust mix.
11. Any final editing
12. Create a final mix and add some mastering magic.
13. Export a wav file to 44.1khz and 16 bit in order to burn to CD.
14. Export to MP3 file (or you could just rip a version from the CD that you burned from the WAV file).
15. Sell millions of copies, live a rich life and retire to the Bahamas

 

[Jimbob Jones]

alesis do a range of mixing desks that plug directly into yor pc (or mac) via USB. They come from 4 to 16 channels and have a basic recording packeage included free. But the best thing is that they are also compatable with most of the other great recording software out there.

 

[Stupid Jerk]

Wow, thanks man!!!

Now, the main thing I'm worried about is getting it all integrated. I.e., getting the vox/guitars/bass I input via the TonePort to mix with each other and with the drums that come from another program. This will be easy enough? As in, I could just import the drum stuff I make into the TonePort program and build off of it? I guess that's what "virtual instrument" refers to? (Simple matter of "drag and drop", maybe?) Or is it gonna be trickier than that?

Here's another question. I have this super-fancy digital voice recorder because (on occasion) part of my job involves interviewing people in the field. It has computer software and everything that's all on my laptop. I want to use this thing to collect samples of stuff. What would be a good plug-in mic I could get? My one friend had this omni-directional mic he got from RadioShack for 30 bucks and it worked great. We recorded some tracks with me singing/mumbling over an acoustic guitar (he had one of his snare drums out, and wire brushes) and it sounded surprisingly good for what it was. I would want to sample things like conversations, birds chirping, ambient noises (traffic, etc.), stuff like that. I would also want to get a mic like that for when I'm interviewing people... just to ensure it catches every last mumble. Well, that, and if we're standing up or something, it seems more polite to shove a mic in their face (or rather, to hold it up at shoulder level, a few feet away from their face) rather than a little box in my fist right under their nose.

 

[Gegatso]

What I have found works extremely easy is Cakewalk Home Studio (similar prog's will do) -- anything that can use Acid-format for the drums. Why? Because you can get Cd's of real drum loops that you can combine and drag and drop into place in the program really easily.
I do all of my recording on one program and mix it on there as well. I have a little 4-track Yamaha mixer I picked up for under 100 bucks as my "outboard" gear and have that going into the PC through an old Audigy Platinum soundcard. There is NO latency (delay) and the thing is super easy to work with. Remember, what you want is a program and set-up that you don't even notice, so you can concentrate on making your music.
Another alternative to the drums if you want to do actual programming is an Alesis machine - which are dirt cheap. They dont sound as good as the loops, but they get the job done. Unfortunately, you cant drag and drop with that, and your recordings will not be mapped out in a graphical format once that is on there unless you synch with MIDI, but that may be more technical than you want to get.
Anyway, in short, you can get this all done very cheaply since you already have your audio interface box.
If you have more questions, just pm me or mail me from my site.

~Mark

 

[Stupid Jerk]

As for hardware, I think I would limit it to things that I can plug my guitar(s) directly into... because I don't currently have any amps worth miking, I'm afraid. Well, that, and the neighbors would complain (ap't dweller). I'm gonna have a hard enough time laying down the vox without some angry person pounding on my door.

I haven't gotten a chance to peruse the drum loops yet, but what kind of variety is available? With what's available... could you piece together something like... uhhhhh... Dillinger Escape Plan? Or... John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme"?

Also, I want to throw in blast beats here and there. You know, on occasion. "Blast beats" are the stuff they do in grindcore/death metal/black metal where you whack the snare as hard and (more importantly) fast as humanly possible with your left stick, work the (usually) double kick as fast as humanly possible (stiffen the springs as tight as they'll go and then spray 'er down with WD-40), while working the ride with your right stick and throwing in a crash here and there. The tempo is basically as fast as the drummer can humanly possibly do it before he develops a massive sprain and falls off the drum stool, screaming like a stuck pig. Brutal and dumb and (with a few exceptions) requiring zero finesse... but optimal for going completely ape-s**t.

So I wonder if available drum loops would have that. There's "cyber-grind" (subgenre of extreme metal) bands that don't have drummers (because it would just be physically impossible... seriously....), but I reckon that's all programmed from scratch with some kind of thingy that would be used by techno people.

So with all that said... is there a software program usable by dummies like me for drum programming where it would be easily importable? Or would I have to learn to use a drum machine (i.e. a hardware box thingy with a big line-in and all that)?

 

[these_go211]

i think all recording programs will give you the ability to import sounds files. so you'll be fine if you have loops you have created somewhere else that you want to get into your recording software. you might have to convert those files to .wav or .aif but the translation is easily done by a free program such as itunes.

BFD is here:
http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=1&tab=1
stands for "big F--- drums!"

DKFH:
Invalid Link Removed

you should use whatever you feel is more comfortable. some like hardware drum machines, others software. it's up to you.

seattle_bassman gave you a really nice workflow there! but there is no right way. it's a good idea to start with a click or drumbeat first so you can keep time. i've done bass first after that on occasion, while other times guitar. again, whatever works for you is the best way!

 

[DocBop]

Here's the way I usually record, maybe this will help:

1. Determine Tempo
2. Setup a click track in Cakewalk Sonar (or ProTools)
3. Record a scratch track with Vocals and Rhythm Guitar
4. Record the Bass Track
5. Start adding basic drums using Drums on Demand
6. Record a good Rythm Guitar track
7. Record a good Vocal Track
8. Add other instruments such as lead guitar, piano, etc
9. Add any harmony vocals.
10. Add effects and adjust mix.
11. Any final editing
12. Create a final mix and add some mastering magic.
13. Export a wav file to 44.1khz and 16 bit in order to burn to CD.
14. Export to MP3 file (or you could just rip a version from the CD that you burned from the WAV file).
15. Sell millions of copies, live a rich life and retire to the Bahamas

+100

I'm just getting into home recording and trying to decide what to buy. I have Mac's and PC's so trying to figure out the software and interface hardware to get. The drums have stumped me thinking I'd have to use a drum machine but not sure how, but Drums On Demand suggestion sound like the solution i need too. I mainly want to create practice tracks of Real Book type tunes and etc. Later try doing some solo bass tunes.

Your posts have taught me a lot, thanks.