Help Wanted - Feedback from DiMarzio Tech Support

[Alcron]

Hi all,

Just wanted a little feedback from an email I shot over to DiMarzio tech support regarding a possible upgrade to my J bass. I've been doing research on this site and have pretty much landed on the Area J's as my pickup upgrade, but had questions regarding what pots to use.

I had asked (1) whether Area J, Model J or UltraJazz was best for me (fingerstyle, some rock some funk), (2) what electronics to use, and (3) since each pickup has two noise-cancelling coils, whether push/pulls for series/parallel switching for EACH pickup was useful, as well as series/parallel switching the pickup PAIR would be useful. My thoughts on (3) is that the pickup pair in series would sound beefier (closer to a rock/P-bass tone as you can get with a J), while in parallel would be more funky/jazzy sounding.

Their recommendations were:


1) The Area J is most likely the best choice.

2) We do not believe linear taper controls function well with passive, high-impedance pickups. For your applications, I think 500K volume/250K tone might be best. The capacitor should be no larger than .033mFd.

3) I do not think individual series/parallel push/pulls will be very useful. I have attached a diagram with a single push/pull on the tone control, to switch the order of the pickups from parallel to series.

DiMarzio Inc.


Any thoughts?






Here's my original message (if anyone wants to read more into it):

Hello Dimarzio!

I'm researching a possible pickup upgrade for my Fender Standard Jazz Bass (MIM, 2014 - maple fretboard). I'm writing to get (1) your recommendation between the Area J, Model J or UltraJazz pickups, and (2) recommended pot values and type (audio/linear taper), as well as a wiring diagram.

I play only fingerstyle, and am into both funk music (Earth Wind and Fire, classic Larry Graham, or a good vintage and/or slap tone) as well as some heavier classic rock music (such as as near P-bass sounding as possible with a Jazz). I realize thats a wide tone range but I'm hoping the following solves it:

From my research so far, it looks like the Area J's with a series/parallel switch would work well for me. My thoughts are to switch from rock (pickups in series with some tone rolled off) to a more funky (pickups in parallel with tone full) tone. I realize the Area J's would work better for the funk tone, while Model J's would be better for rock, but I'm just trying to cover that wide tone range with one instrument the best I can.

It also seems like 250k linear pots for volume, and a 250k audio push/pull pot for tone would be best, though I don't know what value/type pots you recommend for the humbucker J's.

I'm also undecided whether or not to install separate push/pulls to have each coil in each individual pickup itself switch from series to parallel - I'm told most people who do so typically have the option to switch but never exercise it, and leaving each pickup coil set in series is typical. I'm also told (1) switching the bridge pickup from series to parallel does very little to the tone, and (2) doing so to the neck pickup makes the tone weak and muddy, but I wouldn't know first hand.


Any recommendations (and a wiring diagram) would be excellent!

 

[Hopkins]

I have no experience with either the Ultra or Area J pickups, so I can't help you there.

I totally disagree with their advice that the capacitor should be no larger than .033uf, .047uf is pretty much the standard size. Some people even use .1uf caps, its all personal taste, and it doesn't really matter unless you roll your tone off. The higher the number, the more highs will be taken out of the signal.

Running the pickups in series is the way to go, a push pull for series parallel will not be worth the effort, as running a dual coil pickup in parallel will sound weak and anemic. I doubt you would ever use them in parallel. A series/parallel switch for both pickups is a different story.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I agree with everything they said, although cap value is more a matter of taste. I like tone to really cut highs.

 

[Alcron]

Thanks for the replies - the cap value did seem small, and will go with a 0.47. If its too much it's not a big job to put on a different anyway.

Hopkins: I've heard people say that exactly about the individual pickups in series/parallel, so I'll likely just stick to series for that, and do a series/parallel for the pickup pair.


Any experience on the volume pot sizes? 500k I'm told sounds brighter than 250k, though I've not read much of anywhere of anyone who's used Area J's with 250k and 500k. Also, linear vs audio taper? I've also read that linear taper gives a smoother transition in volume for single coils, but for these?

 

[mbelue]

I just put a pair of Dimarzios(model p+model j) in my bass, and love them very much.
I went with a 500k volume and like it fine for that purpose.
I do have a mildly complex switching setup for pickup combinations.
Neck, Series, Bridge on a three-way toggle and a push/pull on the volume to put the bridge pickup in parallel/series.

I really love both pickups on series, big difference in tone, plus hotter output. The series/parallel switch for the bridge stays in series.

Instead of a regular tone knob I used a Stellartone Tonestyler. I like it very much as well.

So I'd recommend a way to put both your pickups in series and a 500k volume knob. IMO there's no drawback to either.

 

[RobbieK]

For a jazz, especially with two 500K volume pots, I'd go linear, not audio tapers.

 

[walterw]

For a jazz, especially with two 500K volume pots, I'd go linear, not audio tapers.

+1 for the volumes (stick with audio taper for tones regardless).

i'm not surprised dimarzio stays strictly inside the lines with the wiring recommendations, it probably keeps down returns from confused customers.

 

[line6man]

Count me in for 500k linear volumes, 500k audio tone, and 0.047uF capacitance (Or to taste.)

 

[Alcron]

Thanks all on the comments so far.

Looks like I'm going Area J's with 500k linear volume pots, and an audio tone pot push/pull for series/parallel switching for the pair, with a .47 cap.

Any final thoughts on the pot size for the tone? Is there a problem using a 250k tone pot with two 500k volume pots? Or should I go 500k across the board?

I'm wondering HOW bright sounding this bass is gonna turn out with Area J's and 500k pots, and if a 250k or 500k tone is more appropriate. I have no experience with pot differences!

 

[line6man]

.47 cap.

Not a good idea. Regardless of the prefix, 0.47 is an inappropriate numerical value. You want 0.047uF/47nF.

Is there a problem using a 250k tone pot with two 500k volume pots? Or should I go 500k across the board?

There is no reason to match pot values. Any combination of resistances is fine, as long as the total output impedance is not so low as to kill output, or so high as to make things icepicky.

I'm wondering... ..if a 250k or 500k tone is more appropriate.

A 500k tone pot is identical to a 250k tone pot, from 0 to 250k. In other words, ANY setting on a 250k tone pot is attainable on a 500k pot. The difference, however, is that a 500k pot has a larger range of resistance to pack into the same rotation, so you can go brighter than 250k, but you will have less control to fine tune lower resistances.

 

[iiipopes]

I am one of the few who uses a .033 tone cap. In Fender's original J-bass wiring design with the stacked V-T separately for each pickup, the neck pickup has a .047 cap and the bridge pickup has a .033 cap, for the same reasons I use it: retaining more mids as you roll off the tone control. To get more growl, that may be why DiMarzio advised the .033, as especially their Model J is one of the growl-iest pickups made.

Everything stated above is the way to go. If you want a warmer tone, go with the 250 kohm pots. If you want everything a little brighter, go with 500kohm pots.

 

[RobbieK]

push/pull for series/parallel switching for the pair

you can't switch both at once with a push-pull. You'll need a 4-pole switch for that. A push-pull only has 2 poles.

A 4PDT toggle switch will do, or you can also use a rotary switch like this.

If you want to use a rotary switch and also keep your bass to three controls, then you can use a stacked 500K linear vol/vol control like this.

There's no reason you can't have individual series-parallel switches. I'm guessing the reason resaon DiMarzio recommend against it is that having one pickup in series mode with the other in parallel mode, the latter will be a fair bit (around 6dB) quieter. Plus it will have 1/4 of the impedence of the other.

(OT, & FWIW... If you ever have a P/J with the original dimarzio model P and model J, IME, this pair sounds best and works together best when the P is in parallel mode and the J is in series mode. This is not a fair comparison though to your J pickups as the model P is wound very heavily and is extremely mid-rangey.)

TBH, I would get the pickups in the bass with 2 vols and a tone, and try them in parallel mode temporarily. Even wire a toggle switch for each pickup and just hang them behind for home testing. You may not even like the tone of these in parallel mode, and the hassle of drilling for a toggle, or using stacked pots or whatever can be avoided.

 

[mbelue]

you can't switch both at once with a push-pull. You'll need a 4-pole switch for that. A push-pull only has 2 poles.

I believe the OP is referring to global series/parallel, not both pickups individually series and then parallel together.
As seen here.

 

[Alcron]

Not a good idea. Regardless of the prefix, 0.47 is an inappropriate numerical value. You want 0.047uF/47nF.

My bad, missed a placeholder zero there. Do they even sell .47 uF?! Seems a bit high!

A 500k tone pot is identical to a 250k tone pot, from 0 to 250k. In other words, ANY setting on a 250k tone pot is attainable on a 500k pot. The difference, however, is that a 500k pot has a larger range of resistance to pack into the same rotation, so you can go brighter than 250k, but you will have less control to fine tune lower resistances.

That sounds reasonable, and sounds like you can dial more in with a 500k tone with the trade-off being that fine tuning.

I am one of the few who uses a .033 tone cap. In Fender's original J-bass wiring design with the stacked V-T separately for each pickup, the neck pickup has a .047 cap and the bridge pickup has a .033 cap, for the same reasons I use it: retaining more mids as you roll off the tone control. To get more growl, that may be why DiMarzio advised the .033, as especially their Model J is one of the growl-iest pickups made.

Everything stated above is the way to go. If you want a warmer tone, go with the 250 kohm pots. If you want everything a little brighter, go with 500kohm pots.

Thanks for this - replacing the cap after it's all said and done seems so trivial that I'll just purchase some .047's and try it, but bring along some .033's as well (since they're so damn cheap). Same with some 250k's. Hard to not buy a $3 set of caps on the same order when the shipping is $20!

you can't switch both at once with a push-pull. You'll need a 4-pole switch for that. A push-pull only has 2 poles.

I meant toggling between the neck and bridge pickups in series or parallel while keeping each pickup in the same configuration. From what I read here and elsewhere, I'm going to put the two coils in each pickup in permanent series and have one push/pull for the pickup pair in series or parallel.


Thanks all for the input. Like I said above, I'm going to purchase a set of 250k's (linear volume, audio push/pull tone) and a set of 500k's (same), along with some 0.033 and 0.047 caps, start with all 500k's and the 0.047 and see how it rumbles my jubblies.


Lastly, glad to see the community is so damn helpful. This is the first forum thread I started, and it makes me glad I signed up! Cheers!

 

[walterw]

That sounds reasonable, and sounds like you can dial more in with a 500k tone with the trade-off being that fine tuning.

it's not even that bad, a 500k audio tone pot at around "7" equals a 250k tone on "10".

Lastly, glad to see the community is so damn helpful. This is the first forum thread I started, and it makes me glad I signed up! Cheers!

 

[Alcron]

Heh, goddamnit, one last logistics question if anyone knows. The linear volume pots only come in the mini size off allparts, and the current pots are normal size. Just wondering if the mini's will fit well in the old normal pots holes. Are they the same size washer? Nothing is ever easy!

Really don't want to have to redrill some new plate, or have to rig some sort of washer fix to keep them in place.

 

[line6man]

it's not even that bad, a 500k audio tone pot at around "7" equals a 250k tone on "10".

Yep. And that's why 500

Heh, goddamnit, one last logistics question if anyone knows. The linear volume pots only come in the mini size off allparts, and the current pots are normal size. Just wondering if the mini's will fit well in the old normal pots holes. Are they the same size washer? Nothing is ever easy!

Really don't want to have to redrill some new plate, or have to rig some sort of washer fix to keep them in place.

It is very doubtful that you would have fitment issues with smaller shafts. They would just be loose in the holes until tightened. Larger shafts, on the other hand, are a concern. But you don't redrill holes. You give them a few twists of a hand reamer, until they widen up.

 

[Alcron]

Thanks again! Parts are ordered, I'll report back if anyone's curious how things went (or for future forum users).

 

[walterw]

The linear volume pots only come in the mini size off allparts...

??

allparts has normal full-size 500k linear pots.

 

[Alcron]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd post back after installing the electronics, if anyone ever reads this forum and wanted to try it as well.

Even with my poopy soldering skills (this is the first thing I've ever soldered together), it works! The mini-pots fit perfectly well in the control plate and were a breeze to install. I needed two nuts to install them - one on either side of the plate, because the pots sat uneven without them (there's an asymmetric metal piece that causes this on the mini pots - the width of the nut is exactly the same height as this metal piece, and fixes the problem perfectly).

The 500k audio taper tone pot works very nicely with the 0.047 cap - it has a good range of tone and doesn't have a very sharp increase over a small turning angle. It'll suit my purposes well. Cheers to Hopkins, walterw and line6man for the 500k, 0.047 cap recommendation.

The linear taper volume pots are also decent, but seem to have a harsh jump near the very end of the rotation. I imagine audio taper would be sharper still, judging from the shape of voltage vs rotation of the linear and audio tapers (ie. Link Removed). The 500k volume pots don't seem overly bright, and can be darkened considerably with the tone, so it's a nice selection of pots.

Whether its the pickups themselves or the copper shielding, these pickups are NOISELESS. I had to absolutely crank each pickup individually, with my amp at absolute full, to hear even a little noise - and the noise is probably just from the amp itself (Line 6 Studio 110).


The only thing I'm not liking is that in series mode, there is only one master volume (the bridge pot). I'm not sure if this is due to series wiring not allowing for each pickup to have individual volumes. It could also be that I screwed up the soldering, or it's a limitation on the wiring I used. I'm attaching a picture of what DiMarzio sent me (the picture itself states the neck volume turns off - in parallel mode each individual volume pot works though). Anyone have the same experience with series?