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Help - Warmoth 72 P/J nitro build finish issue

Tony Stasa

Tony Stasa

Apr 4, 2020
32
30
59
Pittsburgh PA
#1
Help - I am getting a nitro post polish discoloration?

So, I just finished! After a million coats of Filler, sealer, white primer, color, clear and curing time, my first Nitro job is done. Yesterday was wet sanding and polishing day. I also completed the bass final build.

This is what I did:
  • Warmoth 72 PJ bass in Swamp ash that I finished in Fiesta Red
  • Warmoth 72 Tort Pickguard
  • Fender Roasted Maple Neck
  • Frailin Pickups - Creme
  • Babicz Bridge
  • Hipshot/Fender tuners with Extender
  • Passive electronics - but with a 6 way Switch (Para, Series phase, etc) and a toen Push pull - In up position on 10 it is a mid boost, this basically cuts out the highs and low end. (Stingray sound).
BUUUUT, now I am getting a discoloration or white/cloudy discoloration in spots. What might cause that?

see pics - first 3 are the discoloration - the rest are the bass project.

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Despite these spots this thing is amazing:
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Image 1-26-22 at 12.24 PM.jpeg
 
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#2
Tony Stasa said:
Help - I am getting a nitro post polish discoloration?

So, I just finished! After a million coats of Filler, sealer, white primer, color, clear and curing time, my first Nitro job is done. Yesterday was wet sanding and polishing day. I also completed the bass final build.

This is what I did:
  • Warmoth 72 PJ bass in Swamp ash that I finished in Fiesta Red
  • Warmoth 72 Tort Pickguard
  • Fender Roasted Maple Neck
  • Frailin Pickups - Creme
  • Babicz Bridge
  • Hipshot/Fender tuners with Extender
  • Passive electronics - but with a 6 way Switch (Para, Series phase, etc) and a toen Push pull - In up position on 10 it is a mid boost, this basically cuts out the highs and low end. (Stingray sound).
BUUUUT, now I am getting a discoloration or white/cloudy discoloration in spots. What might cause that?

see pics - first 3 are the discoloration - the rest are the bass project.

View attachment 4590009 View attachment 4590010 View attachment 4590011

Despite these spots this thing is amazing:
View attachment 4590013View attachment 4590014View attachment 4590015View attachment 4590016View attachment 4590017View attachment 4590018View attachment 4590019View attachment 4590020
Click to expand...


Great looking project! :thumbsup:

So a couple of questions about the finish with regard to the problem spots... How long did you let your final coats cure before buff/polish? What process did you use for leveling, polishing, etc? Also, did you happen to give the body a wipe with a rag that had acetone on it? That can cause a light haze on the surface of nitro which can usually just be polished away with some light cut polish.
 
#3
Gary_M said:
Great looking project! :thumbsup:

So a couple of questions about the finish with regard to the problem spots... How long did you let your final coats cure before buff/polish? What process did you use for leveling, polishing, etc? Also, did you happen to give the body a wipe with a rag that had acetone on it? That can cause a light haze on the surface of nitro which can usually just be polished away with some light cut polish.
Click to expand...


Hi SlingBlader, Thank you! Here was the process (probably more than you wanted):

I used Oxford Fiesta Red and clear nitro, Stew mac Filler, Sanding sealer, and white Vinyl sealer (which I probably did not need)

In a heated ventilated garage - around 69-71 degrees :

Day 1 Sand and grain fill - 2 or 3 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between with sanding
Day 2 Sanding Sealer - 2 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Day 3 Vinyl Sealer - 3 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Day 4 or 5 - 3 coats of Color - 45 min between
Next day - 2 coats of color - - 45 min between
Next day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Next Day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Next Day - 2 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Next Day - Wet Sand 800
(ran out of Nitro had to order more about a week)
Next day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Next Day - Wet Sand 1000
Next Day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Let cure 2 weeks- full 14 days:
Last day: Wet sand - 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, Polish by hand and with buffer: Medium, Fine, and Swirl.

At that point it looked good (I had a few scratches that I did not really notice until after) but you really gotta be looking. The discoloration was not there that I noticed.
Built the guitar - all good

Next day - noticed the discoloration - thought maybe I sanded through to the white - but really don't think that's it.

I did not use naptha, no acetone, at all. I did use some mineral spirits early in the process, but never on the clear coats.

Known mistakes: I should NOT have used the white Vinyl sealer, I did not really need it, but my thinking is that I wanted a nice white base to see how my color was going on. As a result - I have had a few issues around the pickup edges when installing the pups where the color chips right off the edge as it did not adhere to the white sealer as well as I would have expected it to. So had to do some little touch ups.
 
#4
Tony Stasa said:
Hi SlingBlader, Thank you! Here was the process (probably more than you wanted):

I used Oxford Fiesta Red and clear nitro, Stew mac Filler, Sanding sealer, and white Vinyl sealer (which I probably did not need)

In a heated ventilated garage - around 69-71 degrees :

Day 1 Sand and grain fill - 2 or 3 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between with sanding
Day 2 Sanding Sealer - 2 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Day 3 Vinyl Sealer - 3 coats ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Day 4 or 5 - 3 coats of Color - 45 min between
Next day - 2 coats of color - - 45 min between
Next day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Next Day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between
Next Day - 2 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Next Day - Wet Sand 800
(ran out of Nitro had to order more about a week)
Next day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Next Day - Wet Sand 1000
Next Day - 3 coats of clear ~at least 1 hour dry time between

Let cure 2 weeks- full 14 days:
Last day: Wet sand - 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, Polish by hand and with buffer: Medium, Fine, and Swirl.

At that point it looked good (I had a few scratches that I did not really notice until after) but you really gotta be looking. The discoloration was not there that I noticed.
Built the guitar - all good

Next day - noticed the discoloration - thought maybe I sanded through to the white - but really don't think that's it.

I did not use naptha, no acetone, at all. I did use some mineral spirits early in the process, but never on the clear coats.

Known mistakes: I should NOT have used the white Vinyl sealer, I did not really need it, but my thinking is that I wanted a nice white base to see how my color was going on. As a result - I have had a few issues around the pickup edges when installing the pups where the color chips right off the edge as it did not adhere to the white sealer as well as I would have expected it to. So had to do some little touch ups.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. That schedule should work pretty well, although I generally things just a bit differently. When level sanding before your final clear coats, there's no need to wet sand. I just do a rough block sand with 1000 to "mostly" level the surface to make wet sanding later go faster. I generally do this 2 times when shooting clear after every 5 coats or so. In your case, dry sanding once would likely be sufficient since you're using rattle cans and that material is very thin.

I'd also recommend to let your final coats offgas for 3 weeks at a minimum. Again, you're likely fine due to using rattle cans and if you had the body in a warm environment. The longer you can wait with nitro before you level sand, the better. You'll end up with less shrink back after you level sand, which will help to reduce the amount of telegraphing that will occur later as the nitro continues to shrink.

But the real question is what caused the haze? Well, there I'm not sure... it could be some leftover compound that somehow showed up after the fact, or wiping with a cloth that was contaminated with something that reacted with the finish.... it's just hard to say. I would try to hand buff with some swirl remover or other fine polish to see if it removes the haze, it's worth a shot and it would be hard to cause any further issues with something that mild. Good luck!
 
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#6
Gary_M said:
Thanks for the info. That schedule should work pretty well, although I generally things just a bit differently. When level sanding before your final clear coats, there's no need to wet sand. I just do a rough block sand with 1000 to "mostly" level the surface to make wet sanding later go faster. I generally do this 2 times when shooting clear after every 5 coats or so. In your case, dry sanding once would likely be sufficient since you're using rattle cans and that material is very thin.

I'd also recommend to let your final coats offgas for 3 weeks at a minimum. Again, you're likely fine due to using rattle cans and if you had the body in a warm environment. The longer you can wait with nitro before you level sand, the better. You'll end up with less shrink back after you level sand, which will help to reduce the amount of telegraphing that will occur later as the nitro continues to shrink.

But the real question is what caused the haze? Well, there I'm not sure... it could be some leftover compound that somehow showed up after the fact, or wiping with a cloth that was contaminated with something that reacted with the finish.... it's just hard to say. I would try to hand buff with some swirl remover or other fine polish to see if it removes the haze, it's worth a shot and it would be hard to cause any further issues with something that mild. Good luck!
Click to expand...



Thank you SlingBlader! I am thinking based on close observation, that haze goes all the way through. Sooo, here is what I decided to do. Since the areas are so localized to the outside horns only. I am just going to put 2 coats of color, and get hopefully get 2 coats of clear on it (running very low). I took most of the guitar apart, and did the color, I'll wait till tonight or tomorrow to do the clear. As you know I am using cans, and I find that if I put the can in some warm/hot water for a few min I gat a much finer spray so its pretty glossy to start. after I let it gas off, I will probably just go to fine and swirl remover polish by hand and call it done.

Hard part - I want to play it! :-P
 
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#7
Tony Stasa said:
Thank you SlingBlader! I am thinking based on close observation, that haze goes all the way through. Sooo, here is what I decided to do. Since the areas are so localized to the outside horns only. I am just going to put 2 coats of color, and get hopefully get 2 coats of clear on it (running very low). I took most of the guitar apart, and did the color, I'll wait till tonight or tomorrow to do the clear. As you know I am using cans, and I find that if I put the can in some warm/hot water for a few min I gat a much finer spray so its pretty glossy to start. after I let it gas off, I will probably just go to fine and swirl remover polish by hand and call it done.

Hard part - I want to play it! :p
Click to expand...


BTW: Follow-up question. Since my touch ups were only 2 coats of color and 2 coats of clear. Do I need to wait 2 weeks for "cure" - I would imagine it would cure faster becase it is so thin ?
 
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