help with learning shifting

[keys88]

I'm trying to get better at shifting. I looked in a bass book I bought a long time ago :"Serious Electric Bass" by Joel DiBartolo. Chapter 4 is about shifting but I can't understand
how to get started. I can't tell if, in the first exercise, I should play an open string D then jump to A on the 5th fret?
I have included the 2 pages from the book. I'm hoping someone here can explain how to understand what to do.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Paul

 

[Lobster11]

Yeah, it's confusing -- and probably not what you expected in a shifting exercise.

You can tell from the notation that you are going to play the exact same note over and over, specifically A (on the D string per instructions); you're just going to keep changing which finger you use to play it. Start with your 1st (index) finger, then shift one fret to play it again with your 2nd finger, then back to your first finger, then your 3rd finger, etc.

 

[JonathanPDX]

There are many different ways to approach shifting, you can read a book or learn a specific method from a teacher but you can also develop your own concepts just by really getting to know your fretboard and determining which positions and shapes feel best to you.

For example:

You could take your basic major scale shape in any key, with your second finger on the root, and play it in two locations: One with the root on the E string, and one with the root on the A string. For example, in the key of A, your first shape would start with your 2nd finger on the E-string 5th fret and the second shape would start with your second finger on the A-string 12th fret.

From there, diagram all the notes in the key on a sheet of paper by drawing your fretboard and marking the notes in key. Then you can take a highlighter or pencil and start drawing boxes around 4 or 5-fret sections. You'll already know the boxes starting at your 5th and 12th fret, but how many other shapes are in between?

Once you've identified some shapes that fall between the ones you know, which span the fretboard, it's just a matter of trial and error. You can even map out every possible way to shift (IE which notes you move your hand between) and start eliminating ones that don't make sense or feel unnatural. What's the minimum number of shifts, and the smallest fretboard jumps you have to make, in order to navigate that scale across two octaves with no open strings? There are several answers, and the method I am comfortable with might not be best for you.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I can't tell if, in the first exercise, I should play an open string D then jump to A on the 5th fret?

Here is how I understand that first exercise.
You need to play only one note of A on the D string, but change your fingers.
Start with Finger 1 (left hand) - play that A note, followed by playing the same note of A but played with Finger 2.
Next, play A with Finger 1 followed by Finger 3.
Next, play A with Finger 1, followed by Finger 4.
Next, play A with Finger 2, followed by Finger 1, etc...

 

[Cadillac_Mike]

If you're playing an open D why not go to an open A??

 

[PlayTheBass]

I have Di Bartolo's book too and like it, but this shifting exercise is useless, and may even be counterproductive. It really doesn't emulate any practical musical situation since efficient shifts are all about utilizing every note under your fingers and gaining the most ground in a single shift while keeping the musical line going. In other words, rarely do you shift a single fret because it gains you only one note. And you obviously wouldn't likely be using your 2nd and 3rd fingers in that situation anyway.

Two-octave scales are a *much* better way to practice shifts.

I think Jeff Berlin is right on when he talks about not practicing mechanical exercises like this. Always practice music. (And scales are at least more musical than anything driven by finger numbers.)

 

[matthewbrown]

If you'd like to improve your shifting, one way to do it is to practice scales and modes on one string. This is one way that classical guitarists practice it. For instance, playing an Ab major scale on the g string: Ist position, 1-3; shift to Vth position, 1,2,4; shift to IXth position: 1,3,4. You can practice all the major scales using closed positions this way. Generally, it's best to shift from 1-1 or 4-1, but there are plenty of exceptions.

 

[Shenron]

I'm trying to get better at shifting. I looked in a bass book I bought a long time ago :"Serious Electric Bass" by Joel DiBartolo. Chapter 4 is about shifting but I can't understand
how to get started. I can't tell if, in the first exercise, I should play an open string D then jump to A on the 5th fret?
I have included the 2 pages from the book. I'm hoping someone here can explain how to understand what to do.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Paul

Ok it took me a few minutes to decipher the fingering notation... I suppose it's explained at the beginning of the book?

Number pairs "X - Y" are indeed the numbers of the fingers you need to alternate, while the text "nth finger" is just for grouping combinations by their starting finger

Take exercise 2 as example:

- the notes A and B are two frets apart
- first group of combinations is centered on your index finger: 1st finger 1-1 / 1-2 / 1-4 (so finger 1 is always the first)
- first combination here to practice is 1-1, meaning you play A with index, then shift to play B again with index, then keep going back and forth
- some combination require to shift up, others to shift down (here 1-2 requires to shift up one fret, and 1-4 to shift down one fret)
- notice that combination 1-3 is NOT included, why? Because playing A with index and B with middle finger does not require shifting!

 

[albertus]

I will go to play triads and its inversions in two octaves, or even better, all along the neck

 

[Thumb n Fingers]

There are many different ways to approach shifting, you can read a book or learn a specific method from a teacher but you can also develop your own concepts just by really getting to know your fretboard and determining which positions and shapes feel best to you.

For example:

You could take your basic major scale shape in any key, with your second finger on the root, and play it in two locations: One with the root on the E string, and one with the root on the A string. For example, in the key of A, your first shape would start with your 2nd finger on the E-string 5th fret and the second shape would start with your second finger on the A-string 12th fret.

From there, diagram all the notes in the key on a sheet of paper by drawing your fretboard and marking the notes in key. Then you can take a highlighter or pencil and start drawing boxes around 4 or 5-fret sections. You'll already know the boxes starting at your 5th and 12th fret, but how many other shapes are in between?

Once you've identified some shapes that fall between the ones you know, which span the fretboard, it's just a matter of trial and error. You can even map out every possible way to shift (IE which notes you move your hand between) and start eliminating ones that don't make sense or feel unnatural. What's the minimum number of shifts, and the smallest fretboard jumps you have to make, in order to navigate that scale across two octaves with no open strings? There are several answers, and the method I am comfortable with might not be best for you.

This is the correct answer.

This is how to "take it to the next level." You have to put in the time learning and understanding the entirety of the fretboard, scales, arpeggios, modes, etc.

 

[keys88]

I have Di Bartolo's book too and like it, but this shifting exercise is useless, and may even be counterproductive. It really doesn't emulate any practical musical situation since efficient shifts are all about utilizing every note under your fingers and gaining the most ground in a single shift while keeping the musical line going. In other words, rarely do you shift a single fret because it gains you only one note. And you obviously wouldn't likely be using your 2nd and 3rd fingers in that situation anyway.

Two-octave scales are a *much* better way to practice shifts.

I think Jeff Berlin is right on when he talks about not practicing mechanical exercises like this. Always practice music. (And scales are at least more musical than anything driven by finger numbers.)

Thank You!!!

 

[keys88]

If you'd like to improve your shifting, one way to do it is to practice scales and modes on one string. This is one way that classical guitarists practice it. For instance, playing an Ab major scale on the g string: Ist position, 1-3; shift to Vth position, 1,2,4; shift to IXth position: 1,3,4. You can practice all the major scales using closed positions this way. Generally, it's best to shift from 1-1 or 4-1, but there are plenty of exceptions.

Thanks. This makes much more sense.

 

[bherman]

I worked with that book for some time but definitely found parts of it to be confusing - that section was one. I agree with others about scales and apreggios in all positions. I also found it helpful to learn all scales/arpeggios starting with different fingers, ie starting all major scales with 1st finger, second finger, and pinky. One of my favorites is a book called Bass Fitness, by Josquin Des Pres. It builds dexterity and finger strength, and lots of shifting and fret/string shifting and movement.

 

[salmon256]

When you hear your car getting loud and the the rpms are about i the 2500 area I would hit the clutch smoothly, get to the biting point and then shift to the next gear... oh sorry wrong thing...

Sorry had to make that awful joke - anyway


This video helped me a lot when starting out - honestly I think Ed Friedland book is the best. I also agree that find some songs you like and see if you can practice shifting, in Ed's book you do it a lot. It just comes with playing, I agree that exercise is odd and I disagree I think exercises are key and help people a lot. Ed Friedland book I would look into.

 

[SteveCS]

I'm trying to get better at shifting. I looked in a bass book I bought a long time ago :"Serious Electric Bass" by Joel DiBartolo. Chapter 4 is about shifting but I can't understand
how to get started. I can't tell if, in the first exercise, I should play an open string D then jump to A on the 5th fret?
I have included the 2 pages from the book. I'm hoping someone here can explain how to understand what to do.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Paul

I'm struggling to see what is supposed to be done here, and where the value might be. IME it is better to practice music that requires shifting than this 'all combination' type stuff that never really crops up in practical play, at least not in the way it is generally practiced.

As far as the notation is concerned it might be an idea, once you have worked it out, to write in LH fingers above the notes. In the first example I think it might look a little like this, but the instructions are anything but clear:

You might find playing scales and arpeggios up and down the entire neck far more useful and fruitful. Here is one I wrote out that covers one octave. I don't use TAB but others do, so iI've added it for the sake of inclusivity

and another one that covers the whole of a 21-fret neck:

 

[MonetBass]

I'm struggling to see what is supposed to be done here, and where the value might be. IME it is better to practice music that requires shifting than this 'all combination' type stuff that never really crops up in practical play, at least not in the way it is generally practiced.

As far as the notation is concerned it might be an idea, once you have worked it out, to write in LH fingers above the notes. In the first example I think it might look a little like this, but the instructions are anything but clear:
View attachment 7226514

You might find playing scales and arpeggios up and down the entire neck far more useful and fruitful. Here is one I wrote out that covers one octave. I don't use TAB but others do, so iI've added it for the sake of inclusivity
View attachment 7226593

and another one that covers the whole of a 21-fret neck:
View attachment 7226596

THIS. The exercise in that book isn't very helpful, IMO. Playing two-octave scales would be more productive in learning shifting and economical fingerings.

 

[matthewbrown]

Thanks. This makes much more sense.

Sorry, that last position should be Xth, not IXth!

 

[the_Ryan]

I'm struggling to see what is supposed to be done here, and where the value might be. IME it is better to practice music that requires shifting than this 'all combination' type stuff that never really crops up in practical play, at least not in the way it is generally practiced.

As far as the notation is concerned it might be an idea, once you have worked it out, to write in LH fingers above the notes. In the first example I think it might look a little like this, but the instructions are anything but clear:
View attachment 7226514

You might find playing scales and arpeggios up and down the entire neck far more useful and fruitful. Here is one I wrote out that covers one octave. I don't use TAB but others do, so iI've added it for the sake of inclusivity
View attachment 7226593

and another one that covers the whole of a 21-fret neck:
View attachment 7226596

I think there's value in practicing things like shifting exercises outside of a musical context since they allow one to go beyond what is actually encountered in music and also allow one to isolate only one aspect of playing, and ideally we then incorporate those ideas into something with more musical substance. Basically, isolating the mechanics and then adding more complexity on top of them.

I do think a good way to practice shifting is by taking something familiar like a scale or a melody (probably not a bassline for this purpose) and making games/puzzles out of them: using the same frets but only playing with one finger, playing as much on one string as possible, for scales forcing yourself to only play x notes per string, etc.