Help with Mini Stack (sorta) Rig!

[KPO2000]

Got your PM, but not sure I can help...surprised that the 2 X AE210's are not working for you. I have the AE410 and use with the Shuttle 6/9 + CA9 and it works great and is loud. The AE410 isn't the deepest cab in the world, but I like its balance. Yes, I can push it to fartiness if I crank the amp and really thwap an open E or D, but are you sure it's not the amps you're using? Are you sure you're not clipping the amp? Have you tried it with a power amp or anything else?

Good luck,

Ken

 

[KJung]

Here's my situation: I play in moderately loud cover band (classic rock, modern rock, new country, funk). I'm usually NOT in the PA. I play 4-string only - Sterling & Stingray, and fingers only - no pick, no slap. I play a lot of melodic lines and love a grunty, ballsy somewhat warm tone that really cuts/sits well in the mix.

Back trouble drove me to sell off my NV610 and get (2) AE210s. Hard to admit, but I'm not digging 'em. They do not have the low end balls/grunt/whatever (probably an xmax problem) and seems they fart out when I dig in on the low E. I used to have an IP112 and really liked it, but it was not modular enough and I sold it hoping the AE210s would do it for me with my F1 and F500, but sadly they are not.

I also play a church gig on Sundays, and practice at a different rehearsal space, Sooo... I need a stack that will:

• Be modular enough to configure for practice, church, rock gig
• Handle the volume on gigs without PA (when stacked together)
• Each piece preferably be under 45lbs. (maybe 50)
• Give me that grunt/ballsy tone that the neo's are not doing for me.

Research has led me to Aguilar DB112s, Bag End S15s, and Bergantino (HT/EX 12s and the HS210s).

My current thoughts are to get a head that can handle 2ohms (Thunderfunk, Carvin B2000, etc) and then go with a 3-cab stack that gets more vertical like:

• 3 x DB112 -- Aguilar
• 3 x S15 ---- Bag End
• HT112/EX112/EX112 -- Bergantino 12's
• 3 x HS210 -- Bergantino 10's (supposedly deliver the grunt better than my AE210s)

I've been doing a TON of research here lately and have narrowed it down to these contenders.... I would really love some informed opinions on these.

(Other opinions gladly welcomed as well!)

What say you all?!?

Thanks!

-M

Something not right here. I think it would almost be impossible to fart out two AE210's with an F1 or F500. I understand if you don't dig the more upper mid bright tone and super punchy low mids versus a more vintage upper bass presence with a smoother top end (like the HS cabs). However... farting out an AE210x2 stack with an F1....hmmmm. Something not right at all.

I guess if you crank either the VPF filter or the bass control, you MIGHT be able to drive those speakers beyond xmax, but unlikely. I run my F1 flat into the AE410, with just a touch of cut on the upper mids to reduce that 1K peak of that cab. It HAMMERS.

Are you sure you are not clipping the linput of the MB head. If that input clip light is coming on, very nasty things can happen (which is why the clip light is there).

 

[MikeyB]

I'm glad you bring this up, because when I got my first AE210 I was surprised that it would fart out. Admittedly, it was pretty loud, but still. I called Jim about it at the time - this was over a year ago - and he suggested that it could be the limiter on the F1. I ran a pre thru my CA9, and I could still get it to fart on my lowest strongest notes (4-string basses only, to boot). Now, again, it is pretty loud before this happens.

Yes, I'm setting the gain properly - pluck the hardest that I will during normal play, set the gain till the blue light flashes, then back off. I've even backed off more than I thought would be necessary just in case... can still get it to fart out.

Fast forward to a couple months ago - I get my 2nd AE210 and this one responds the same. And, I can get the 2xAE210 stack to fart out when playing loudly also.

With my Sterling, the gain will be around 9:30 or 10:00, I usually keep both the VPF and VLE filters completely OFF (full ccw) and I might boost a modest amount of low mids (2:00 max). No bass boost. It will fart out when the volume is around 12:00 and I'm really digging it. (again, that's pretty loud! this might be completely normal and the limit for these cabs)

I'm pretty sure it's the cabs; happens on both of them the same, with different heads (F1 and F500) and different basses (Sterling, Stingray, Jazzes, Ric - though of course the gain/volume is diff for the passive basses).

Oh, and EQ on the active basses will be flat.

-M

 

[KPO2000]

Hey, this is a long shot, but have you turned your AE210 tweeter all the way down? The fartiness could be that.

I think I have mine down pretty low, especially because I use pedals a fair amount and it doesn't seem to like them very much.

 

[KJung]

I'm glad you bring this up, because when I got my first AE210 I was surprised that it would fart out. Admittedly, it was pretty loud, but still. I called Jim about it at the time - this was over a year ago - and he suggested that it could be the limiter on the F1. I ran a pre thru my CA9, and I could still get it to fart on my lowest strongest notes (4-string basses only, to boot). Now, again, it is pretty loud before this happens.

Yes, I'm setting the gain properly - pluck the hardest that I will during normal play, set the gain till the blue light flashes, then back off. I've even backed off more than I thought would be necessary just in case... can still get it to fart out.

Fast forward to a couple months ago - I get my 2nd AE210 and this one responds the same. And, I can get the 2xAE210 stack to fart out when playing loudly also.

With my Sterling, the gain will be around 9:30 or 10:00, I usually keep both the VPF and VLE filters completely OFF (full ccw) and I might boost a modest amount of low mids (2:00 max). No bass boost. It will fart out when the volume is around 12:00 and I'm really digging it. (again, that's pretty loud! this might be completely normal and the limit for these cabs)

I'm pretty sure it's the cabs; happens on both of them the same, with different heads (F1 and F500) and different basses (Sterling, Stingray, Jazzes, Ric - though of course the gain/volume is diff for the passive basses).

Oh, and EQ on the active basses will be flat.

-M

Yeah, you might just be reaching the limits of the cabs, especially when really digging in. I've run my AE410 relatively flat with my F1, with the preamp gain set appropriately, and noon is about as high as I've ever had the master... and it is loud. However, even though I slap a touch, I have a reasonably light touch, and that might be the difference.

Cool... just trying to trouble shoot. It's amazing how different we all are in our playing styles and volume requirements!

 

[MikeyB]

I do think I'm at the limit of the cabs. I don't want to mislead any potential AE210 purchasers - it's plently loud for most onstage use. But we only use a small powered Mackie for small clubs and it doesn't have enough juice for bass so my rig has to carry the house. As you know, the low end muscle gets lost pretty fast once you get out about 20' or so.

-M

 

[IvanMike]

for giggles try a bag end s-15 with a bag end s-12 on top. i have two of each but generally just use one 15/12 stack. my band plays loud too. I hit the cabs with about 400 watts each.

 

[Catdaddy]

IvanMike for giggles try a bag end s-15 with a bag end s-12 on top. i have two of each but generally just use one 15/12 stack. my band plays loud too. I hit the cabs with about 400 watts each.

Ha Ha! This is the rig i've been using for years, with a GK 400rb sitting on top. I've read some things lately that different sized drivers are not supposed to be optimal, but this rig sure sounds good to me. I get nice low end and a bit extra midrange punch. What do you especially like about this combination IvanMike?

 

[IvanMike]

IvanMike for giggles try a bag end s-15 with a bag end s-12 on top. i have two of each but generally just use one 15/12 stack. my band plays loud too. I hit the cabs with about 400 watts each.

Ha Ha! This is the rig i've been using for years, with a GK 400rb sitting on top. I've read some things lately that different sized drivers are not supposed to be optimal, but this rig sure sounds good to me. I get nice low end and a bit extra midrange punch. What do you especially like about this combination IvanMike?

well for what it's worth this rig seems to be a happy accident. I'm sure there are some phase response issues but whatever's happening sounds good. Two s-15 cabs sound good but lack some upper mids, two s-12 cabs also sound good but are a tiny bit short in the lows dept. together the cabs really sound good over a wide range - very aggressive. an s-15 coax with the s-12 sounds killer as well.

 

[IvanMike]

crappy pic but you get the point. at big shows if i can i make a vertical stack.

 

[MikeyB]

Not to derail my own thread too much but...

I thought I read a post somewhere that a certain vendor stocks the Bag Ends with the Speakon plates already on - anybody know if that's so?

Also, I've read that the Bags are in a similar tone domain as the Berg HT/EX112... and the specs on paper show the Bags as being more sensitive... but which cab will ultimately get louder? and/or project better on the gig without PA?

-M

 

[IvanMike]

Not to derail my own thread too much but...

I thought I read a post somewhere that a certain vendor stocks the Bag Ends with the Speakon plates already on - anybody know if that's so?

Also, I've read that the Bags are in a similar tone domain as the Berg HT/EX112... and the specs on paper show the Bags as being more sensitive... but which cab will ultimately get louder? and/or project better on the gig without PA?

-M

not sure about speakon but you can call BE. hard to say re berg vs BE. both will be loud as will epi 112 cabs. you may need to demo them to see which you like the best. at this level it's more of an "ice cream - which flavor do you like?" question.