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Help with Recording Rhythm Guitarist

RevCrookedMouth

RevCrookedMouth

Nov 14, 2014
57
54
35
Georgia
#1
My band has started working on our demo and we're recording through the tascam digital 8 track recorder (I know, not great, but we're making it work), and since I'm the one with the most technical know how in the group I've been nominated to do all the editing, controlling, hook up, all of that.

I thought my guitarist was better than this, but we have one fast paced song with a really driving rhythm that he himself wrote. And when there's no vocals or drums or anything he can play it fine. But he loses the pattern when vocs or drums come in. When we record I've got his amp DI'd into the recorder and the drummer plays with him so he can stay on exact timing to make it easier for the drummer to play with the track when he records his.

My question is what should I do to ensure we get the proper track we need? Should I see if he can get on a click track to keep time better than the drums? Or should I just take a few measures he performs correctly and copy and paste them to get the whole song?

Any feedback would be appreciated I'm at my wits end with this song.

PS if this is the wrong section for this thread let me know I'm new here.
 
#2
If he can play it on his own fine then recording Rythm guitar on its own first would seem like a good idea. If you can't get a click track maybe have the drummer play something really simple to keep the beat like rim shots on the quarters?

Or ditch the song - you need to be able to play it together.
 
#4
click track , we were having problems on one track with our drummer , we had played the song at several shows no problem , but when it came time to record , the drummer was having timing problems , he was the one who suggested a click , so we figured out the proper bpm, downloaded a click app , and he did it with an iphone , app and headphones. now if I can get the singers melody right , we can get this one in the can and move on . I do not recommend moving on to another song , back burner stuff ime stays there usually or does not get the attention it deserves when it does get done, power thru , its worth it in the long run
 
#5
Yeah I'm gonna try the click track. The recorder has a pretty extensive one built in. It's a good song so I really want it on the demo. I may have to just copy and paste the good measures he does. Although I've read that that removes the soul out of it.
 
#6
Another option if the click doesn't quite work; you've got an 8 track recorder and it sounds good when you play it live, why not record it like that? Do like a Recorderman or Glyn Johns setup on the drum kit (4 mic's) then rhythm, bass, scratch vox. you can overdub the vocals and any lead guitar after, but you would have the bed tracks. Just DI everything you can to have less bleed, and have everyone use headphones. It is not an ideal setup, but its how many people used to record before protools made pseudo perfect performances the goal.
 
#7
Yeah I'd do that but this particular unit only has 2 inputs. Weird I know. 8 tracks but 2 inputs. It's a small mind of portable unit.

But anyway we got it working. I set up a click track and did 3 takes one right after another. The 2nd one was right.
 
#8
RevCrookedMouth said:
Yeah I'd do that but this particular unit only has 2 inputs. Weird I know. 8 tracks but 2 inputs. It's a small mind of portable unit.

But anyway we got it working. I set up a click track and did 3 takes one right after another. The 2nd one was right.
Click to expand...

I know it looks like you have this specific track nailed, but I'll throw out another suggestion. When we track everything, we track the drums first. We do this by running scratch tracks DI on guitar and/or bass and vocals so the drummer can feel the structure of the song. Once that is in place, that is now your click track. Much more realistic than a metronome click. This allows the other instruments and vocals to use their "in-song" ques rather than the soulless "count-in" ques. If a large timing issue exists with the drum track, do it again. But slight timing issues with the drum track can add flavor and "soul" as we say. The sterile pro-tools perfection another poster mentioned is an issue to my preferences, and I believe we get a "live-in-studio" feel using this approach. Also, nothing wrong with the drummer playing to a click while cutting their tracks. But I will still use the drum track as the click regardless.

Good luck.
 
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#9
viper4000 said:
I know it looks like you have this specific track nailed, but I'll throw out another suggestion. When we track everything, we track the drums first. We do this by running scratch tracks DI on guitar and/or bass and vocals so the drummer can feel the structure of the song. Once that is in place, that is now your click track. Much more realistic than a metronome click. This allows the other instruments and vocals to use their "in-song" ques rather than the soulless "count-in" ques. If a large timing issue exists with the drum track, do it again. But slight timing issues with the drum track can add flavor and "soul" as we say. The sterile pro-tools perfection another poster mentioned is an issue to my preferences, and I believe we get a "live-in-studio" feel using this approach. Also, nothing wrong with the drummer playing to a click while cutting their tracks. But I will still use the drum track as the click regardless.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. I've still got 4 songs to record (5 song demo) and I'll prolly use that method or at least test it on the next one.
 
#11
This problem is actually quite common in the young bands I've heard locally.
The players are concentrating so much on their own parts, they aren't really listening to each other.
It only shows up when they start recording and actually pay attention.

I agree, scratch drums over click track.
Even working alone, I'll map out a rough percussion groove using a high hat or shaker, snare and kick rather than using a click track.
 
#12
FFTT said:
This problem is actually quite common in the young bands I've heard locally.
The players are concentrating so much on their own parts, they aren't really listening to each other.
It only shows up when they start recording and actually pay attention.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's part of the reason I've been pushing for the demo. I figured recording would highlight any issues that needed fixing.

Turns out we really need to tighten up the screws.
 
#14
Friends of mine put out an ad for a professional drummer, as in major tour qualified.
Someone who could set time and hold it and not eff up when they came out of rolls and such.
A professional tour worthy time keeper.
They auditioned FORTY guys who considered themselves to be qualified to find ONE who actually was.

6 months out of the basement, they opened for The Cars, Cindy Lauper, Hall & Oates, Richie Blackmore and Pat Travers.
 
#15
What's worked for me in the past quite well, and I highly recommend it to any non-pro band, play your songs as a whole band with a click track for a month before you even try to record. It's absolutely torturous hearing the electronic click through the PA, but at the end of the month your band should be so friggin tight it's not funny.

Then record. Drums first with scratch guitar, bass, and vox. Then lay down your real tracks.

To me it sounds like your band is not tight and doesn't listen to each other. The click month method should fix that right up. Unless there's some dire need to put out a sloppy demo right this instant, it would be better to just get tight first.
 
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#16
There's other stuff too like making sure the bass part or guitar parts are not stepping on the vocal.
I totally get why McCartney tracks his final bass part last.
Taste, timing, execution, placement, but the vocal is always priority #1.
 

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