Help with timing on slow tempo songs, any suggestions?

[Pemberton]

My first post (long time TB reader).

The band I'm in, a trio, recently starting working on an instrumental version of "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry." And so far I've struggled in rehearsal with the slow tempo of the song (3/4 time, a waltz, about 100 bpm). It's our slowest song and I play the least amount of notes of any of our songs, but I'm finding this song to be one of the more challenging ones because of my timing. The drummer is rock solid, so I can't blame him, it's me.

Now, I've spent the last few days alone with the metronome. And I can feel my timing improving, but I'm still having to really concentrate on hitting those root notes right on the one (and I know part of my problem is also my timing on the couple of walk-ups to the root). And if I don't get it right, it throws the whole band off (or at least it throws me off), and I don't what to be that guy.

So, my question is, other than practicing with the metronome over and over (and it is helping), and playing along with a recorded version (we've been using the Randy Travis live version as a starting point), is there any other method I could try to help get me to the point where I can internalize the tempo and not have to be consciously counting one-two-three, one-two-three in my head.

One last thing, the guitarist is an excellent player, and sometimes he will go pretty far away from, in my mind, the recognizable melody. So if I start listening to him more than the drummer, that will also throw me off. But I guess I know the answer to that one (lock in with the drummer and not pay attention to what the guitarist doing).

Thanks for any suggestions,

~Pemberton

Comic is from a local cartoonist I'm friends with (you know how drummers can get).

 

[marqueemoon]

I have a feeling this will feel/work best when you find the right place to be relative to the beat. Playing with a metronome will only help so much as everyone will need to swing a little to keep it from plodding along.

Personally, for this song I would approach it as being in 6/8 and focus on hitting the 4 together.

 

[MrLenny1]

Slow tunes are hard to play tempo wise and really need restraint.
The metronome don't lie.

 

[Malcolm35]

Some slow tempo songs can be played with the root on one, then nothing more till,the next chord change. When the drummer brings out his brushes the above seems to work best.

Offered for it is worth.

 

[monsterthompson]

Best trick a drummer taught me for dealing with half-time breaks is to still count at the same rate but envision the snare on the three instead of the two. I've seen this referred to as "cut time." I think you could apply this to a slow tempo song. Try counting a bar as eight instead of four (assuming 4/4).

 

[dreamadream99]

The problem with this style is it's a compound compound time. It's a swing or shuffle three, which means individual beats are triplet based as well. Placement of the upbeats is the hardest part of this feel. You have to subdivide, in your mind, to line everything up right.

Swing feel isn't equal up- and downbeats—it's a lilting long-short pattern. So you feel "long-short, long-short, long-short" in your head for every measure.

If that doesn't work to align the measures, then either you or the drummer (or both) have an unsteady tempo. If that's the case, it gets better over time—especially if you work on it together.

 

[12BitSlab]

One trick to play slow ballads is to play along with Stan Kenton's version of "Here's That Rainy Day"

 

[BassChuck]

100 quarter notes per minute is 200 eight notes per minute.
Any single beat can be divided in 2 or 3 or 4, depending on the tempo and/or style.
Subdivisions are your friend.
Victor Wooten has some interesting comments on this.

 

[Pemberton]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Since my OP, I wanted to give an update. I've spent the past week working on the slow tempo to a metronome and a good backing track (slow jazz waltz, 100 bpm). And I gotta say, yep, it works, and it gets much easier.

We had just started working on the song and I just hadn't put in enough alone time with it. So I got up early every morning, put on the headphones, turned on the backing track, closed my eyes, and meditated while playing to the tempo. Also, playing along with the metronome only hitting on the one and not on two and three is a nice challenge, forcing me into internalizing the tempo.

So now, instead of having to consciously count the beats in my head, I just feel it. Plus, the drummer came early to rehearsal yesterday and we both worked on it. So, I feel much better now, but will continue working on my timing.

One more thing. I noticed that with a slow tempo song it sounds better to me if I hit the notes ever so slightly behind the beat (right on the beat, of course, also works). However, I found that if I rushed the notes slightly before the beat, it just messed with my groove and didn't sound right.

Now, back to practice . . .

~Pemberton

 

[Craigmartini]

Some good suggestions already here, but I would add this. If you are having trouble feeling where to play the notes, the first thing I would suggest to do at home is.. Sit down, put the song on, and just sway your body side to side with the groove of the song without playing bass. Make sure you are really moving in tempo with the song. Start to recognize where the kick drum and snare hit within your movements. You'll find you can start to really get to feeling where the down beat is by swaying to the music. Now, without changing your body movements play the down beat notes right in time with your swaying. You'll start to feel the groove, and as long as you stay swaying in time with the music, it's almost impossible to play out of time. Just keep doing it, before you know it, it'll be automatic!

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Best trick a drummer taught me for dealing with half-time breaks is to still count at the same rate but envision the snare on the three instead of the two. I've seen this referred to as "cut time." I think you could apply this to a slow tempo song. Try counting a bar as eight instead of four (assuming 4/4).

Pretty much what I was going to suggest. It this case, the song is in 3/4, so if you count each beat as triplets (123, 234, 323) it will help.

 

[Malcolm35]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Since my OP, I wanted to give an update. I've spent the past week working on the slow tempo to a metronome and a good backing track (slow jazz waltz, 100 bpm). And I gotta say, yep, it works, and it gets much easier.

We had just started working on the song and I just hadn't put in enough alone time with it. So I got up early every morning, put on the headphones, turned on the backing track, closed my eyes, and meditated while playing to the tempo. Also, playing along with the metronome only hitting on the one and not on two and three is a nice challenge, forcing me into internalizing the tempo.

So now, instead of having to consciously count the beats in my head, I just feel it. Plus, the drummer came early to rehearsal yesterday and we both worked on it. So, I feel much better now, but will continue working on my timing.

One more thing. I noticed that with a slow tempo song it sounds better to me if I hit the notes ever so slightly behind the beat (right on the beat, of course, also works). However, I found that if I rushed the notes slightly before the beat, it just messed with my groove and didn't sound right.

Now, back to practice . . .

~Pemberton

The old guys say, if your head is not moving you are not grooving.....

 

[vindibona1]

One word... SUBDIVIDE!
Slow stuff is often the hardest stuff because everything is exposed. The only way to really keep pulse, especially when playing with others is to subdivide. When practicing you can use a metronome at double, triple or quadruple the speed to help you. If I may suggest a purchase... A Boss DB90 metronome. It's going to help when you don't have a band behind you. It's not cheap, but probably one of the best investments I've ever made. One of my trumpet teachers demanded I buy one- and I'm glad he made me.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ATOFS4/ref=twister_B07PYQM5RY?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1



But also, here is a YouTube link to test your tempo maintenance ability. It starts off with a drum beat (80bpm), then drops out for a few seconds, then resumes. Your job is to still be in time when it resumes.



And lastly, from a guitar player (Ron Thal) there is a cool video that I've found helpful too.


Good luck.

 

[fig]

...swaying in time with the music, it's almost impossible to play out of time.

The old guys say, if your head is not moving you are not grooving.....

Highly recommend moving with the music. When I finally started doing that, decades ago, it helped immediately my timing, especially for slow songs.

 

[vindibona1]

Highly recommend moving with the music. When I finally started doing that, decades ago, it helped immediately my timing, especially for slow songs.

Hopefully all the swaying is "in time". I guess if you sway you become sort of a human metronome.

 

[Vinny_G]

This guy has found a way to improve his timing on slower tempos. It seems to have worked for him.