Hendrix's bass players: Noel Redding and Billy Cox:

[StinkFoot]

Been listening to some later Hendrix material - stuff with Billy Cox on bass, instead of Noel Redding. I was never a big fan of Noel Redding as a bass player. He was a guitarist who never really played bass until Hendrix recruited him, he used an eight string bass that had a rather strange sound, and he never really played much in the pocket, etc. Most of the time he was providing a sonic cushion for Hendrix's guitar or playing complimentary melodic lines, and his sound tended to blend into background.

Later on, when Hendrix decided he wanted to get more into "roots music" and the Experience broke up, he hooked up with Billy Cox, an old army buddy of his who played bass. Cox was a different story entirely - a very traditional RnB-P Bass thumper who played a lot more up front - virtually the opposite of Noel Redding. "My kind of bass player".

But when comparing the Redding material to the Cox material, I'm finding I much prefer Redding on bass: Playing bass for Hendrix was certainly not easy. I like to compare the job Noel Redding had with that of Jimmy Garrison in the Classic Coltrane Quartet: What's a bass player supposed to do when Coltrane and Elvin Jones, or Jimi Hendrix and Mitch Mitchell, are busy tearing each other to shreds, and time and space seem to vanish? Seems that both Redding and Garrison had the right answer: Lay low and reflect the pulse of the music - put a pillow of low register sound behind all the wildness happening up front - mellow it out: Enhance the sound and don't get in the way - provide an envelope that allows those monsters to be as creative as possible.

Cox was a pretty good bass player in the traditional sense and did some fine work with Hendrix - happened to be listening to the Rainbow Bridge album today and there are some cuts on there, "Earth Blues" for example, where he nails it down very well. Be that as it may, for showcasing what Hendrix and Mitchell were doing, IMO Cox leaves a lot to be desired: His very traditional approach to bass seems to put constraints and limitations on what they were doing instead of enhancing it and allowing it flourish, the way Redding's playing did. I've come to appreciate Noel Redding a lot more from listening to Hendrix with Bobby Cox.

Opinions out there? I'm sure there are many....

 

[jerry]

I prefer Billy Cox's playing, you need somebody to lock the pocket. Kinda like Ric Laird with Mahavishnu. I dug Redding's playing too, but just preferred the more R&B thing Billy had.

 

[Alba McBass]

First time I ever heard that Redding used an 8 string bass. Always saw him with a Fender Jazz in his hands.

Any pics of him with this 8 string bass ?

 

[StinkFoot]

First time I ever heard that Redding used an 8 string bass. Always saw him with a Fender Jazz in his hands.

Any pics of him with this 8 string bass ?

Here are some shots - it was mentioned at the time - I knew about it back then. I think maybe it said so on the vinyl album sleeves. I never knew there was such a thing as an 8 string until I heard about that. On the BBC recordings the announcer mentions it. But it does seem that on stage he didn't use it much. Maybe it was strictly a studio thing - might have been hard to put that sound across well in a live format, especially with 1967 technology. Or maybe Hendrix himself was playing it in the studio - I recall reading something about that. On the BBC recordings it does seem to be Redding on the eight string.

If you listen closely to the bass on the early LP's, you can hear it. Not sure if it was a musical decision or just a gimmick, but the sound does seem to work well in the context it was used.

 

[StinkFoot]

I prefer Billy Cox's playing, you need somebody to lock the pocket. Kinda like Ric Laird with Mahavishnu. I dug Redding's playing too, but just preferred the more R&B thing Billy had.

There are some spots where I think Cox did do a very good job of holding things together, but a lot of the time there was no real pocket to play in Hendrix's music - it was free form and abstract, or floating and melodic - that's where I think Redding shines. Sometimes it sounds to me like Cox is trying force in a groove that really doesn't belong - he did not extend himself the way Redding did, maybe because Redding was really a rock guitarist and so a lot more flexible. Understandably YMMV. A lot does depend on the context.

 

[Neon Blues]

Tommy Shannon would have owned that poopie.

 

[StinkFoot]

Tommy Shannon would have owned that ****.

Could be - never thought about that but yeah - Shannon was very versatile and technically pretty amazing. Held his own with SRV and Johnny Winter - not easy. I think he was able to work with guitarists like that better than anyone else - he always seemed to know just what to do as a bassist even when the going got very rough.

That guy in your avatar was also pretty good at that - he knew how to do it with Hendrix - it's on Electric Ladlyland - Voodoo Chile. Always amazes me how Casady changed up so much when he played with Hendrix - except for that moaning sound (he has an amazing sound on that cut) you'd never know it was him unless you pay very careful attention and know Casady's style very well. If I didn't know it was him, I would not be able to figure it out from his playing if not for his signature chords and arpeggios there, (very much in the background) deep in the guitar solos. Usually that's very easy.

Shannon IMO is one the true greats and he doesn't get the credit he deserves, because he played behind such big stars and he was always very low key in his presentation - but NOT in his playing.

 

[StinkFoot]

Tommy Shannon would have owned that ****.

Now that you've breached the topic of Hendrix bass players in an alternative reality, I'm thinking Phil Lesh might be the best on Hendrix's far out stuff. He shines on that sort of material - started life as a composer of electronic music, before he met up with Garcia.

 

[Neon Blues]

Now that you've breached the topic of Hendrix bass players in an alternative reality, I'm thinking Phil Lesh might be the best on Hendrix's far out stuff. He shines on that sort of material - started life as a composer of electronic music, before he met up with Garcia.

I've never liked Lesh as a band member. I think his bass lines were hidden behind so many instruments that its hard to hear how much he is not in the pocket.

 

[StinkFoot]

I've never liked Lesh as a band member.

I'm not a big fan of his playing on most of the Dead material either - certainly not the rockers and funky bluesy pieces - IMO he just does not know how to do it. I think their music would have been a lot better if they had a funky, in the pocket guy for a lot of their songs. I'm talking about Lesh in the context of of the weird stuff....

 

[corinpills]

I really like both, but I feel like Billy took things in a more traditional R&B direction. Certainly, there's nothing wrong at all with Jimi playing in that context, but I personally prefer his English singles (things like "Crosstown Traffic") and when he was reaching for the cosmos.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm not a big fan of his playing on most of the Dead material either - certainly not the rockers and funky bluesy pieces - IMO he just does not know how to do it. I think their music would have been a lot better if they had a funky, in the pocket guy for a lot of their songs. I'm talking about Lesh in the context of of the weird stuff....

If they had a funky, in the pocket guy, they would've been Phish.
To me, the one thing that most made the Grateful Dead the Grateful Dead was the way the whole band, and especially Lesh, danced around the pocket, defining it without anyone actually playing in it. But you always knew exactly where it was. Love it or hate it, that's what made them (and him) unique.

 

[Mattrill]

my favourite song that Noel Redding played on has to be Earth Blues

 

[Rocker949]

I really like both, but I feel like Billy took things in a more traditional R&B direction. Certainly, there's nothing wrong at all with Jimi playing in that context, but I personally prefer his English singles (things like "Crosstown Traffic") and when he was reaching for the cosmos.

I feel the same way. I always preferred the psychedelic music that Hendrix did. It was Noel Redding who excelled at playing bass on that. But when the "People, Hell, and Angels" album came out a few years ago, I developed a new appreciation for Billy Cox. That album consisted of songs Eddie Kramer and company thought were worthy of taking and putting into one last studio album--if you want to look at it that way. The point is Billy Cox is playing on most of it and I really like what he is doing.

However, for the most part it's the "Are You Experienced" and "Axis: Bold as Love" albums which I have probably leaned toward all these years. Noel Redding is playing bass on those, obviously. Noel, after all, was rock player. Cox was certainly more R & B.

One thing that might be added about Noel (I'm just talking off the top of my head here,) is that I also like hearing him on the live albums such as "Hendrix in the West" and the "Winterland" albums. He was rarely flashy, certainly no Jack Casady, but he seems to have held his own playing with two great artists. Noel Redding was never a bass virtuoso, but he did what needed to be done. Especially on those live performances, he seemed to have an intuitive grasp of what Hendrix was going to do next. But that's just my opinion. If you listen to Billy Cox jam with Hendrix on the bonus track of People, Hell, and Angels (Ezy Ryder/MLK Jam (Captain Coconut,) he is definitely doing very well, once again, IMO.

 

[The Chuck]

IMO- Noel and Mitch were a great pair. I also think that Billy and Buddy were good together.

 

[Rocker949]

my favourite song that Noel Redding played on has to be Earth Blues

The only one I can think of right now (although I think there may have been others,) is the version on the "People, Hell, and Angels" album. That's Billy Cox on that one. It's a great example of why I like the album so much.

 

[catcauphonic]

The Experienced and Axis albums are a big reason I picked the bass as my first instrument.

Perhaps it's my lack of Experience (3+ years), but I see Noel discussions pop up frequently here, and frankly I don't hear Redding receding into the background or laying low at all. At this point, nailing Manic Depression is where I strive to be ... still working on that

 

[Rocker949]

The Experienced and Axis albums are a big reason I picked the bass as my first instrument.

Perhaps it's my lack of Experience (3+ years), but I see Noel discussions pop up frequently here, and frankly I don't hear Redding receding into the background or laying low at all. At this point, nailing Manic Depression is where I strive to be ... still working on that

That's one of the earliest examples of Noel Redding playing his Fender Jazz. On most of the AYE album, he is playing a Gibson EB-2. It's a fun song which I go back to from time to time to make sure my timing is still okay. My repertoire isn't terribly extensive, but that has always been a song I've enjoyed playing.

 

[nysbob]

It's tough to know how much of the bass on the early records is actually Jimi...I know he did quite a bit. As far as playing went, I thought Cox was a much better player.

 

[Rocker949]

It's tough to know how much of the bass on the early records is actually Jimi...I know he did quite a bit. As far as playing went, I thought Cox was a much better player.

I've read that some people think Chas Chandler may have gone back and overdubbed the bass to "Hey Joe." But that's definitely Noel Redding playing on all that album, and I think he is probably playing on "Hey Joe," too. How much of it was under the supervision of Jimi or Chas, no one knows. On "Electric Ladyland," Noel plays on five songs, Jack Casady on one, and Hendrix on the rest. In one book, I have read that on the Axis album, Jimi may have gone back and overdubbed the bass to two songs. I don't even remember which ones. It has been so long since I looked this up. I doubt that he did, but it's possible. Even if he did, though, there are earlier versions of Noel Redding definitely playing bass on those same songs on the 4CD Purple Box set.