Hi From Jeff Berlin

[JeffBerlin]

In my opinion, many people find it easier to complain than take a value-based approach to considering anothers viewpoint. You have made it very clear that your methods have worked particularly well for yourself (as a trained musician). Furthermore, you have pointed out that these same methods have worked for countless others. I don't interpret your ideas as confrontational, but rather informative and substantive.

If I decide not to agree with your viewpoint, that is my decision, and there is no room to criticize you for it. However, I would much rather consider your experience as immeasurably greater than mine, and learn from it.



I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why people play out of time.

When one pays for lessons in learning the law, medcine, art, sculpting, acting, cooking, gymnastics, sports language, dance, boxing, karate, martial arts, etc, etc there are always solid methods to learn. Only in today's musical time do so many people feel that there is a broad way to learn how to play.

My learning methods didn't work for me only. They work for everybody who follows them. They;ve been around for far longer than I've been playing or teaching.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Just to drop in and say hi to all.

I studied with Jeff at the PSOM (twice now!, most recently Jan - March 09) over the least two years, and have improved greatly as a result. Still working my way through the Chord Studies book you had me buy Jeff, as well as many exercises Matt put into his particular Chord Studies book...and ii-V-I exercises, and all the rest....

I'm having a blast now. Playing with a couple of jazz bands (though not given up the day job yet...) and finding more people to play with...

Hard work + correct materials + good teacher = better bass player!

If people want to see my reviews, do a search under my user name and the two review threads I wrote about PSOM will appear.

I may still come back and haunt you Jeff! My only question is, what will come next after finishing the materials I have? I'm keen to find out...

All the best,

Pete

Peter Weil is a doctor who is also a very fine bass player. He changed a lot of little things during his time at the Players School (lots of little changes add up to one greatly changed musician).

 

[JeffBerlin]

Yeah Jeff, I think you can attribute that mostly to the overall immaturity of the poster. I'm sure you will see repercussions about the statement you made about slap and pop earlier in this thread as well. Not that you actually said anything wrong, or even against slap and pop, but the fact that you did not praise and glorify slap and pop, and spend the rest of this thread encouraging and advising slappers on how to do this and that to better their slap and pop, you will automatically be deemed an @$$hole, and seen as the enemy. Sorry about that truth, but for the rest of us, we thank you for your time and words of wisdom.

It interestes me that some would be possibly insulted that I might not favor their favorite style of bass playing. Lots of guys believe that Bruce Lee could have knocked out Joe Frazier (I always laugh at that one). But I'm not insulted by their belief.

 

[John Wentzien]

Yep! There just aren't any Magical-Mystical shortcuts.

 

[Billnc]

I think most of the animosity towards Carol Kaye stems from her trying to lay claim to many of James Jamerson's lines.

True on Carol's part. Jeff and Anthony have the same basic philosophy, or I percieve it as such. Practice, study, analyze your playing, be a harsh self critic (ouch!) and grow, Segovia was the same way. They get feathers ruffled because this is tough. Those that get angry hate to think they'll have to work at improvment.

I was going to join a teachers association, but when I read an article, it stated, "only one concert pianist is born a year, it's not you or any of your students" What kind of crap is that? Wait! It automatically LOWERS expectations for all involved.

High expectations yield high results. I read a lot of books. Most people tell me "You don't learn everything from books." They are mad and are non readers. Same thing. Be tough, no where do I see Jeff or Anthony as mean. In fact it gives us something to aspire too. I'm gonna make damn sure when they talk negatively about teachers I'm not in the group they are talking about.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Given that you're so open about your musical views and practice methods, what do you think about the mysticism that surrounds Charlie Banacos and his method? Is his apparent unwillingness to have his students talk about his lessons pretentious, in your mind, or appropriately protective?

I think that Charlie would be amused if he heard that someone referred to his lessons in a "mystical" manner.

Charlie is a factual musician. He has disassembled music and arranged from the pieces some of the most compelling homeworks for musicians there ever were. But, if you don't know music and if you don't know the notes on your instrument, they you will not be able to take advantage of that genius mind of his. Charlie listened to McCoy Tyner, Jophn Coltrane, Eric Dolphy Phyneas Newborn and a million other jazz legends and made the greatest music lessons in history from what he listened to. I owe him a lot. A lesson will arrive from Charlie and it will have two lines of music. These two lines kept me busy for weeks, even months. Charlie is DEEP and he knows his stuff.

 

[JeffBerlin]

True on Carol's part. Jeff and Anthony have the same basic philosophy, or I percieve it as such. Practice, study, analyze your playing, be a harsh self critic (ouch!) and grow, Segovia was the same way. They get feathers ruffled because this is tough. Those that get angry hate to think they'll have to work at improvment.

I was going to join a teachers association, but when I read an article, it stated, "only one concert pianist is born a year, it's not you or any of your students" What kind of crap is that? Wait! It automatically LOWERS expectations for all involved.

High expectations yield high results. I read a lot of books. Most people tell me "You don't learn everything from books." They are mad and are non readers. Same thing. Be tough, no where do I see Jeff or Anthony as mean. In fact it gives us something to aspire too. I'm gonna make damn sure when they talk negatively about teachers I'm not in the group they are talking about.

Forgive this blunt remark; but non reading musicians who argue for it are arguing for ignorance and making excuses for it.

 

[markkoelsch]

I have a question: a while ago I found a lot of really harsh comments about me on Talkbass. I mean really nasty stuff. But I've been here maybe three times and all the people that I've met have been great. Why do some on the internet take such a harsh reaction to me, or to Carole Kaye, Anthony Jackson, or Dann Glenn?

Jeff, I think it is simply that people are petty. You are one of the finest bassists in the world, and some people are jealous. You have opinions that you share, and as you have said some of these opinions fly in the face of conventional thought.

Personally, I find your commentary refreshing. You come at things from different directions developed from experience. They have worked for you. That is not to say that everything will work for everyone, but I bet that a large percentage of what you are saying would work if folks would work at it.

I am one of these guys, who at 41, has been playing since I was 13. I started to learn to read, but quickly found it boring because the teacher I had was trying to teach me polkas to a metronome. I found it very hard to read, count, and play at the same time and gave up. I subsequently studied some theory and technique with a classical guitarist, which no surprise helped a bunch.

With the above in mind, I have a couple of questions. First, can you recommend any particular books to use while learning to sight read? Secondly, if you were searching for a teacher what would your criteria be in selecting one? Finally, being a finger style player with the abilty to play very fast do you play with your right thumb anchored to a pickup or say the E string, or do you have your thumb floating and possibly muting as you go?

Thank you Jeff,

Mark

 

[John Wentzien]

Forgive this blunt remark; but non reading musicians who argue for it are arguing for ignorance and making excuses for it.

Hench: The ignorant posts on the forum.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Jeff, I think it is simply that people are petty. You are one of the finest bassists in the world, and some people are jealous. You have opinions that you share, and as you have said some of these opinions fly in the face of conventional thought.

(JEFF) I find that conventional thought is a group thought. I ignore group conclusions.People don't always think things through which is why I dismiss what most people believe until I think about it for awhile. Those who are angry when I comment against the low standards of music and music education and write me to protest would do well to read this next quote. It speaks about a lot of people. "If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, chances are that the one who yelped is the one you hit!"


Personally, I find your commentary refreshing. You come at things from different directions developed from experience. They have worked for you. That is not to say that everything will work for everyone, but I bet that a large percentage of what you are saying would work if folks would work at it.

(JEFF) Actually I don't come from different directions because most great teachers know the things that I say. Further, these methods don't only work for me, but they work for everybody who pursues academic learning practically 100%. The shame is that many players will never find out their real potential because they don't put themselves into a purely musical academic situation.

 

[XXL]

Do you use a Chorus effect pedal?

 

[JeffBerlin]

Do you use a Chorus effect pedal?

I do, but the company was so rude and unhelpful to me that I don't mention their name. I played a NAMM show in Nashville and I forgot to bring my chorus for a couple of live performances. I did this twice, clumsy me. So I went to their booth and asked to borrow a pedal. The next thing that happened was that the company wrote me a letter and told me not to ask to borrow their pedal anymore.

How about that one!!! I played their pedal at the type of show where live musicians demonstrate gear and I did it for free. And these guys complained. I don't mind telling you that it was TC Electronics. I met theri VP in Anaheim and told him what happened. I told him that i was using his pedal for years and that I was treated badly by their company. He said that he would check into it and then get back to me.

He never got back to me. So I painted out their logo and I will never mention them in any interview, sicne they made very clear to me that they were upset that I used their pedal at the Nashville NAMM.

 

[standupright]

Warm-ups are not really necessary except to play a little bit and get the feel of the instrument in your hands. The idea of going through a set of warm up exercises as a part of one's practice is a myth. If you play real music in your practice, you are automatically warming up and learning good music at the same time.

Regarding performing, everyone has to do a sound check, You have to check your amps and your bass tone. This is a warm up because you are playing. Warm ups themselves are silly as a separate effort to play well unless you just playing lightly for a few minutes.

i gotta say....growing up with a professional musician and music teacher for a father, there are some points in this thread that you have talked about that go against alot of what i was taught. it's interesting to see another accomplished musician / teacher with a different perspective. thank you for taking the time. some very interesting points in this thread.

 

[JeffBerlin]

1

 

[UncleBalsamic]

Thanks Jeff!

 

[JeffBerlin]

i gotta say....growing up with a professional musician and music teacher for a father, there are some points in this thread that you have talked about that go against alot of what i was taught. it's interesting to see another accomplished musician / teacher with a different perspective. thank you for taking the time. some very interesting points in this thread.

Lots of player/teachers simply continue what they were taught without actually thinking about it. I know of a classical violinist, that when he used to swim in a pool, he would keep one hand sticking out of the water because he didn't want to get arthritus. If you feel stiff when you play then play a little bit.

 

[JeffBerlin]

Bye Everyone. Thanks for a fun day.

Jeff

 

[John Wentzien]

Thanks Jeff.

 

[markkoelsch]

Jeff, I understand what you are saying. Your techniques in training musicians will work as long as people are willing to put forth the effort. With out effort it does not matter with whom they study or what they study...they will fail.

Here is where I am at. I want to learn to read music as I have been playing it for nearly 30 years, but I am not a complete player without it (heck, I do not think anybody is complete...there is always more to learn). Do you have any recommended materials to learn to read music?

I also asked that if you were searching for a teacher today, what would you use as criteria in choosing one?

 

[kesslari]

Jeff - you are quoted (and misquoted, perhaps) about "don't use a metronome" pretty frequently. What I just read you state (previous page of this thread) was

but, never nver nver include tempo with learning new music.

I have personally found a metronome to be sometimes useful to me - for example, when working through a complex part, I have played to a metronome and found that I rushed when I got to the most difficult section. That was valuable knowledge - I didn't feel like I was rushing. Using the metronome I was able to hear and feel how the part sounded accurately in tempo. Then I could internalize that and play it that way without the external timekeeper, and at that point I had the choice to play "accurately" or slower or faster.

Are you saying "never play with fixed tempo" (as many assume), or something closer to "learn and understand the music first, and work in tempo (if at all) once you are physically and mentally comfortable with the piece"?