Hi to all from Jeff Berlin

[Baryonyx]

i was just comenting his endless talk about that school and that amp..

It's a good amp and a good school. If either of these helps in your quest to be a better player, so be it.

I really wanted to ask you why you are so angry with teachers who explore more abstract concepts of music such as groove and heart.

Maybe because these things are personal and not the domain of teachers? When people seem to spend so little time with teachers anyway learning the good stuff, why listen to a teacher talk to you about things that are primarily "felt" and learned when you play with other musicians?

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy, I think Jeff's point is that you have to learn music inside and out so that you can then play things which touch people in the manner you describe, which is the whole point of the exercise. And he believes his method of learning music is the best and fastest. It's a means to an end. That's what I get from him, anyway.

But you really don't need to learn it inside and out to touch people. It's a noble pursuit for sure, and one that I've tried to do my own self, but if you're looking simply to touch people emotionally with music, you can do that if you only know 3 chords. You just can't expand past it.

 

[David Jayne]

Well, once again putting words in his mouth, maybe he'd respond: "If 3 chords is enough for you, fine. With my method you will be free to create in an unlimited way, at any time."
That's my take. Oddly enough I consider his approach a more 'holistic' method compared to the methods taught by others-he says play music where others might say learn scales with a metronome.

 

[JimmyM]

Maybe because these things are personal and not the domain of teachers? When people seem to spend so little time with teachers anyway learning the good stuff, why listen to a teacher talk to you about things that are primarily "felt" and learned when you play with other musicians?

Because it's every bit as important to know as the academia. I took lessons from Dave LaRue, and more than once he'd say to me, "OK, you got the notes, so put some feeling into it now." And when I did, everything clicked in a way that it didn't click the first time through. And if I didn't understand why I wasn't playing with feeling, Dave would show me the difference. Made a huge difference in my playing just by adding a little emotional content.

My feeling is that music is an art, not a science, and a strict academic approach to an art just doesn't work like it does with math. You can buy a paint by numbers kit, too, and being able to follow the numbers and stay in the lines won't make you an artist. Sometimes the abstract concepts need to be taught, too.

 

[bassrique]

I agree with you on this, but wanted to take it one step further because I ran into this when I was younger and starting out on bass. Would love to hear your opinion on it.

Because it's not an appreciated instrument (probably the least appreciated in modern music, and if any of you were fans of "The Kids In The Hall", there is an hilarious sketch about this fact), you tend to me more marketable, because most guys go for lead guitar or vocals and this leaves bass players much harder to find.

But that also makes some bass players lazier. They think that just because they are in demand and always playing then it's time to just sit on their ass and not push it more than a guitarist. It's kind of a catch 22...bands are always looking for a good bass player, but then relegate the bass to "hey man, just follow the groove and stay out of the melody". That's why guys like you, Geddy, Squire, Wooten, and others are so highly regarded. You took this "bastard" instrument and made it groove with the rest of the band.

I didn't like that skit.



For about 30 seconds [~1:20] it's funny, but that's it. The rest is weird.

 

[ac1710]

Thanks a lot Jeff. really good of you and all...

 

[JimmyM]

Also, after reading this thread all the way through, I found another comment that I thought was a little harsh...and that was about perfect pitch being meaningless while relative pitch is everything. As someone with perfect pitch (although it seems to be deterioriating as I get older), I found it a great help in being able to identify intervals, as well as figuring out chords by ear, copping licks off records, etc.

However, it's something you're born with, so I'd be really wary of anyone who claims they can teach it to you. Relative pitch, however, can be taught through interval training, reading music, etc., so it's a much better use of your time than vainly trying to get perfect pitch from a product in the back of BP. But if you have perfect pitch, it makes that stuff a lot easier, so I would take exception to the statement that it should be ignored if you have it. It's a bit of a parlor trick, yes, and relative pitch is a much more practical skill, but perfect pitch is a useful skill if you know how to use it.

 

[Baryonyx]

Because it's every bit as important to know as the academia. I took lessons from Dave LaRue, and more than once he'd say to me, "OK, you got the notes, so put some feeling into it now." And when I did, everything clicked in a way that it didn't click the first time through. And if I didn't understand why I wasn't playing with feeling, Dave would show me the difference. Made a huge difference in my playing just by adding a little emotional content.

As much as I love Dave, I've got to call some kind of BS on this. Heart and emotion are that almost intangiable stamp you put on music. You don't need a teacher to show you how to play something with feel. Of course, in classical music, the exact feel is very important. But in everything else we can take a little liberty and put our own stamp on it. It is as simple as looking past the notes and simply believing in what you play. If you enjoy and feel what you're playing, others will too.

On the same note, groove comes from much the same place. feel the music, loosen up and get into the swing of things. Perhaps a teacher could give you confidence in your knowledge of the notes that will help you to relax and groove, but beyond that, learning to groove comes from within, in the same manner as learning to tap your foot to a beat does.

 

[fdeck]

Hi Jeff.. Thanks for sharing. Quick question. I have a 3 year old child, and I would like to know when is a good age to start taking music classes, and what instrument do you believe is the best to start with. (I'm thinking piano?)

I know this is Jeff's thread, but as a parent of two kids learning music, I would offer the following: My younger brother and I started piano when we were 5 and 6, respectively. He got a lot better than me in a hurry, so I know that 5 is possible. My dad got us started from a basic method book.

I think a reasonable milestone is when the kid is making progress towards learning to read. Also I don't know if you have your kid in preschool or what, but the general skill of following instructions from an adult other than you is useful too. That would at least be happening in kindergarten.

 

[Baryonyx]

And given that this is Jeff's thread and he is now gone, I'll contact a mod about locking it so that it be preserved for future reference.

 

[john turner]

thanks jeff - look forward to your return visit. .